Searching for Steel

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 26 Jul 2000 3:14 am

It's been a while since I have been out clubing ,so last Saturday nite a friend and I decided to check out some local Country Music. We wound up at a local supposedly "hot spot" called Miss Kitty's Hilltop. Arriving during the first set and paying a cover fee we found a place at the bar to sit. There was a four piece band playing ,Bass two Guitars and drums. they were not all that bad but played more rock than the advertised country. They did a little Hag and it sounded like a Jimmy Hendrix version. At the break I spoke with the lead singer who said he would love to do more real country but the people (the place could hold 150 and there were only 30 or 40 people there)want to rock it up. I told him to get a steel and they would pack the place. His answer was we are thinking of adding a keyboard because it would be more versitile. After visiting two more places advertising Country and none had a Steel Guitar we headed home. Still searching.

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 26 July 2000 at 04:16 AM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 26 Jul 2000 3:28 am

Joe, most of the bands I've talked to down here that are "country" would like to have a steel but claim they can't get enough money to afford it. And it's not just a local problem, it's the same in most areas.

The steel is generally the odd man out or considered a luxury by a lot of bands. If it comes to the point someone in the band has to go because they can't get enough money for the gigs, the steel is the first to go.

The other problem is that most of the bar bands are really into the current "modern" country with mostly rock styles and "screaming" guitars and not looking for a real country sound. The bar owners themselves also perpetuate that as most know nothing about country and their perception is the current rock country sounds.

I had a call about 2 years ago from a group in Largo that wanted a steel. The band's name was Ozark, which would conjure up traditional country but it turned out the band leader was originally from Springfield Mo and the reason for the band name. Anyway, I went down to one of their practices. The drummer was a pop drummer and had never played country before. The bass player was in some other world and I'm not sure what he had played before but it sure as hell wasn't country. The lead player was an ex southern rocker and played any country song like it was southern rock (ever played He Stopped Loving Her Today with a southern rock guitar?). I had my Nashville 400 amp with me and at their practice I had to have the post gain on 10 (max) to be up to level with them. Everything they did was fast and with a rock beat. Needless to say I didn't go to work with them.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 26 Jul 2000 8:23 am

I remember on the forum people saying they were tired of hearing that the steel was just a country instrument. I agree it shouldn't be ,but what other music can a Steel Guitar man make a living in? I don't see where too many players are infiltrating other music. It's a tragedy. But country just isn't country without a PSG. Come to think of it some Country isn't country with a steel guitar. win no win situation.

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CJC

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 26 Jul 2000 9:00 am

...some Country isn't country with a steel guitar.

Ya'll are telling the truth. Prepare to be punished accordingly. (I can hear knees jerking already...)

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Jul 2000 9:52 am

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Jul 2000 2:26 pm

One day, we may make more inroads into Jazz music. I've noticed that, in Jazz, they don't care what you look like, or whether you're old and fat...they just care about the music. If there's any real future for PSG, I think that's it!

I would like to think that Classic Country is comming back, but most younger people disagree.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 27 Jul 2000 3:40 pm

Don I totally agree,Jazz is where it's at . I brought Wally Murphy into a strickly jazz club when He was with Nick Nixon and appearing at a fair. He wasn't allowed to play for a while but when they turned him loose the joint took notice. Buddy Emmons who isn't looking for a pat on the back has pioneered versitily and Steel Jazz.I Know others are great but it's who turned me onto steel Jazz.However I am and always will be Country with an open mind.

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CJC

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 27 Jul 2000 3:51 pm

DITTO JACK STONER, you hit the mark, down here in the Broward-Dade county area of southeast Florida it's the same scene when it comes to the availablity of pedal steel guitar in whatever bands are left in the area. In the night club scene there's only one major C&W (Neo-Rockin'-Rollin, Country what ever...)night club left in the entire area. This club usually hires bands from outer state or from northern Florida. The pay scale is like being back in the 70's and most bands have 4 members, including a keyboard player. Then there's C&W Karaoke nights where the master of ceremonies (single perfomer) gets to sing for 4 hours for about $75.00 total . The bar owner gets away cheap not having to hire a 4 piece band. Now with Karaoke you do hear pedal steel on the tracks being played. Population of both counties, 3.5+ million, not bad for what ever C&W music that is left down here. Now if only the latin community could gets in touch with the music of Bob Wills, Hank, The Hag, Alan Jackson, etc., could be a new beginning for C&W, LATIN STYLE.

P.S. Has there ever been a C&W band play CUBA lately???????[This message was edited by Kenneth Kotsay on 27 July 2000 at 04:54 PM.][This message was edited by Kenneth Kotsay on 27 July 2000 at 04:59 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 27 Jul 2000 9:22 pm

You guys crack me up !

Its a big world out there and steel seems to be more popular and accepted than ever. My solution to there not being enough steel is to bring mine along and play it. People love it and I stay busy. They even give me money to play the damn thing ! Imagine that !?

Bob

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Jul 2000 2:27 am

Bob, what is happening in NYC is not always what is happening in the rest of the world. In most of the world, it's not that way. In fact here in the area I'm in there's very little country music and most contribute it to the large number of retirees from the NYC and northeastern area (I live in New Port Richey, Fl, but the big joke around here is "New York Richey").

When I lived in Kansas City Missouri there was still country bands but bands with steel was getting less and less.

Actually, I shouldn't say it is only country. Between cheap club owners, karaoke, DJ's and one person bands, it doesn't leave much for a full band.
The big thing here in the Tampa area is one or two people with a bunch of midi equipment.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Jul 2000 5:11 am

Jack,
The live club music for the CW/roots scene in NYC is active but doesn't pay so well. There are many other ways to make a living playing steel.
If you want to keep the kind of music you love alive make sure you play it for somebody. Coffee shops, librarys, restaurants, whatever. Play solo or with a friend, tape, midi thingy or start your own band.

I'm busy playing no matter where I am.

Bob

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Jul 2000 5:28 am

Bob, there's no "country" music down here in that venue - fact is there's not many 'coffe shop' type venues period.

I've got to the point that I play what I want to play, but there's not that many opportunities available in this area. In fact when I first moved down here I talked to a local music store owner (who plays a Zum) and he told me there wasn't anything period, but I was able to find some work, but almost everything is an hour drive from here.

I did do the "midi" scene with a keyboard player that had a Roland midi workstation keyboard but that wasn't my bag. The midi drums and bass from the keyboard were great but just not like real live musicians.

I can play freebies, and everyone is looking for musicians to play freebies but I'm not going to go into a place that is making a profit and give them free music (when there is no chance of getting any paying jobs).

Like I said the NYC music scene and the scene in other areas are not the same.

[This message was edited by Jack Stoner on 28 July 2000 at 06:30 AM.]

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 28 Jul 2000 5:50 am

LOL!

What a hornets nest this thread is! You all sound pretty much like like me and one of my "weekend warrior" microbiologist/guitar-playing buddies. We have this same conversation almost daily, and hold pretty much the same views as y'all do here. What's going on? Between the @*$#& DJ's (pardon my symbolese, but I just have a particular problem with DJ' -- arrrrrrgh!), karoke bars and one-man bands, I'm still getting paid what I made in 1977! And I do this for a living! That's why I'm in 3 bands. What's WRONG with this picture?

Buy like Mr. Hoffnar said, if we want to keep real country music alive, we gotta just keep playing it live for people, whenever and wherever we can. I'm amazed at what people find they like, when they lay their preconceptions at the door.

My wife was talking to some people where she works yesterday, and told someone "Yeah, my husband plays in several bands, but wants to put together an up-tempo, country/swing thing. " A woman standing nearby made a sour, like she just ate a bug face and said "Country!?" My wife had to say "No, not the stuff you're thinking about. Classic and western swing, stuff, with some rockabilly stuff thrown in. Sort of like BR5-49 is doing." The woman still had no clue. Her only experience was Stetsons, tight Wranglers and big hair, and she knew she didn't like that. Then, Heather (my lovely better half) played her some on a CD she had there, and the woman says "Oh -- well now, I LIKE this!" Unless we expose people to other stuff you won't hear on commercial radio, how will they know?

Anyway, it is frustrating. For me, to solve the "we can't afford the steel guy" problem, I finally said to heck with it, I'm going play BOTH! Not simultaneously, of course, but I've wanted to have a steel in the band for so long, I just went out, bought a lap steel, and have been teaching myself how to play it. Don't know how you all do it -- it's HARD! But, I can truthfully say, I see what all the fuss is about, and why you guys are so devoted to your chosen instrument -- THEY'RE JUST SO MUCH DANG FUN! Nice bunch of people who play 'em, too!

Take care, and steel on!
TJW

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 28 Jul 2000 7:34 am

I guess Texas is a good place to play steel (

) I recently quit a top 40 country band to stay home a little more, and they've insisted they will be replacing me with another steel player, not guitar or fiddle. They already have keys.

I'm certainly not one of the 'A' players in Austin, but I get plenty of opportunities to work a beer joint for 50 bucks. Some of the bands are not exactly great, but when you really want to get out and play with a band, you can.

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bterry.home.netcom.com

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Jul 2000 10:56 am

This Post reminds of Ed Naylors Post on June 16 on this here Forum:
www.b0b.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/10064.html
i like what Bob Hoffnar said.
Jazz is what got me Likin the Steel. It was Buddy's black+white back in 71 got me goin'
i did'nt even play Steel then. ( got started in 1979)
Pedal Steel fits into Jazz just like the Piano, Saxophone,Vibes,Violin,Accordian do..( We, Steelers know this ! it's the rest of the People we wanna' convince

)---+
Playin Country Musik is a lot of Fun, but Jazz is definitely Richer !
Since the mid 30's Country musicians have played or been drawn toward Jazz.
Where one lives has a lot to do w: it.
Pedal Steel is not only Country !
(even if that's where you're comin from.)
But Country ain't Country if it ain't got that Steel ! that's 4 sho' !
Looks like you're havin' a hard time keepin' Country goin' over there !??
Makin a living from Musik is a tough one !
Takes Years,... + You better B Good !??

Here in France you find the same flaky+shaky club,or café owners who lament over payin 300 $ for a 4 piece band on a sat. nite.
it's the same no matter where + what you play
is'nt that what a musician puts up with throughout most his career ?
Smoke that Guitar Son !!!

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 28 Jul 2000 3:24 pm

Todd:
Keep the faith and keep on converting Madison's pagan--Wisconsin needs you.

CrowBear:
France sounds a lot like Jacksboro highway clubs in Fort Worth.

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Jeff
Wood is good.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Jul 2000 3:59 pm

Only one steeler (Curry Coster) is working pretty steady in the Baltimore area. And, there are only 3 or 4 clubs that regularly have Country Music. Keep in mind that this is a Metropolitan area with well over a million people! Twenty years ago, there were 30 or 40 clubs with music EVERY weekend, at least 30 country bands, and half-a-dozen working steelers!

On a recent trip to Richmond, Va., I was told "no live Country Music anywhere, anymore". New York may be doing great! But, here in this area, we're pretty much "history". I think it was George Meany who said...

"If you want to learn about the unemployment problem, you don't ask someone who has a job!"

Good point![This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 28 July 2000 at 05:00 PM.]

willie waits · Post by **willie waits** » 28 Jul 2000 5:42 pm

Had the pleasure of visiting Phoenix last month. They still have some great steel guitars. Went to a place called the Buffalo Chip in Cave Creek. Pat James band. They were great with Danny Sneed on steel. They did ONLY TRADITIONAL COUNTRY!! This was worth the trip to Phoenix. That Danny Sneed is really hot!!

Tommy Mark · Post by **Tommy Mark** » 28 Jul 2000 6:07 pm

Guys, the scene has changed so much in the last 20 years. I remember when you almost had to pledge the wife and kids to hire a steel player.Now it seems that there is an abundance.There are very few bands in the Toronto area using a steel player.I feel privledged to be in one of them. As far as the steel player being the odd man out,our policy is no steel- no deal.We leave the front man at home!I think its just a cycle we`re going thru. Real country will comeback.

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 28 Jul 2000 7:05 pm

Went to our local firemans carnavel tonight and some local country band was playing.
with 5 members.
Female vocalest
Lead guitar
Drums
Bass
and keyboards.
My mother was not surprized about my comments along this line.

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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 29 Jul 2000 8:55 am

Ken! actually there was a C&W band that went to play in Cuba, But no one ever heard from them again?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Jul 2000 10:19 pm

Just so you guys know. I'm not busy playing country music.

Bob

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 30 Jul 2000 8:21 am

BOB H. I guess you got to the bottom line of my post. "Not making a living playing Country, pays not all that good". Says it all doesn't it? A lot of people spend thousands of dollars on a hobby. Some spend the same only to make a living.It was easier when people wanted what we were doing.
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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 30 July 2000 at 09:29 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Jul 2000 9:52 am

Janice,
When I see the keyboard guy in a band I start drooling. I run and get my steel and ask to sit in. Then I do my best to eat the keyboard players lunch. It takes learning how to cover keyboard parts. Which sounds alot better than keyboards copping steel riffs! Keep it musical and be polite. Then drop your card with whoever seems like they call the shots.

The reason they don't have a steel player is usually because they couldn't find one. Or find one with an open enough mind to be more into the music than steel riffs.

You guys are standing next to a fresh mountain spring and complaining about how thirsty you are !

Bob

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Franklin D-10

Kenny Yates · Post by **Kenny Yates** » 30 Jul 2000 6:13 pm

I am the bandleader and have been for a few years. It's a little tougher a first getting the gigs and a few more things to worry about, but it worth it when you tell the guitar player to get off your licks or get off the stage. Many times i wind up working with no guitar player and that;s okay too. Our crowds are usually better than the ones with two guitars.