Do Hawaiian players truly like Haole pickers?

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 6 Nov 2002 8:30 pm

I really don't think so. And I think if I were Hawaiian, I wouldn't either. We went over there with lots of men and weapons in the late 1800's and literally told Hawaiians we were taking over. There's a huge resentment (and rightfully so) that still exists, along with a fairly big movement to regain their soveriegnty.

Now, I'm not pro-Hawaiian, although I used to think I was (and I'm certainly not anti-Hawaiian). I also don't believe this "Aloha" crap. There is no special Aloha among Hawaiians. They have the same jealousies, petty issues, and weaknesses that prey on them and tear them apart that we whities -- and everybody else -- have. I've personally witnessed all the back-stabbing among Hawaiians, which is no different than the back-stabbing that exists all over the globe. As one Hawaiian friend -- who is extremely proud of his heritage -- told me, Hawaiians used to go around from island to island killing, raping, and being just as hostile with each other as the best of them. And this is true historical fact. "Aloha" and this paradise we call Hawaii was created by tin pan alley writers in the 20's and 30's. It's fantasy. And it really was our "conquoring" the islands that calmed the beast there and stopped the island-to-island and inner-island fighting.

Jerry Byrd plays "Hawaiian" music? Well, yes and no. Some people call The Carter Family real country music. I don't know. I love the Carters, but I don't think I'd call them "real" country. They do sound like hicks singing Americana...but true original country music? I don't know. When I think of true hillbilly (which is country to me) music, I think of Bill Monroe's early stuff. Let's get back to Jerry. He's undoubtedly one of the softest, prettiest players. He's also one of the steel players who refused to go to pedals, and if you think about it, at the time he defected to Hawaii, it was because there wasn't much for him to do here. Pedal ruled in the 60's. To continue playing lap, which is what he wanted to do, and make a buck, there really was no where else to go. I can't say Jerry's my favorite guitarist. I like Don Helms over Jerry, even though Jerry is technically better. I like the bite, though, that Don Helms gives it, over Jerry. I might be turned off from Jerry, too, because he comes off as "holier than thou," as I've heard (read) him criticise many people (usually nameless)for their "bad" and substandard playing -- and why? He doesn't need to prove he's the best by putting other people down. He comes off sounding...not good, when he does that.

Bottom line to my question: My guess is that most Hawaiian steel plays can't stand Jerry Byrd's guts, if they were to speak the truth...he's white, he plays really pretty steel guitar, and he's probably had many Hawaiian girlfriends...and if I were Hawaiian, I'd hate him, too!

Rip me a new one.

Al

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 7 Nov 2002 8:00 am

Now that was some interesting readin'....

Personally the only part of that I can address "First Hand" is

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I might be turned off from Jerry, too, because he comes off as "holier than thou," as I've heard (read) him criticise many people (usually nameless)for their "bad" and substandard playing -- and why? He doesn't need to prove he's the best by putting other people down. He comes off sounding...not good, when he does that.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have sent JB recordin's of myself YEARLY for the past 15 yrs. At first his replys were polite and helpful ... anyone could tell I was just learnin'.

The "better" I got ... the more critical he became ...

Like ... "Rick, your harmonics are beautiful ... too bad you didn't play everything with them"...

About 4 yrs ago I sent him a "Christmas CD" .... he gave me an EXCELLENT review ... extremely flattering ... I have the letter framed and it hangs over my mantle.

But I didn't stop there ... the next 3 yrs ... I started "experimenting" with more "unconventional" playin' ...

These recordings generated replys like ... "Rick, I have to ask ... are you playin' a SAW or a steel guitar" ... I was in my volume pedal/theramin phase.

Just a few months ago ... I sent him this years recordin' .... his reply ...

"Rick, Rick, Rick ....you sound like an Inebriated 1920's resophonic player" ... I was in my "Sol Hoopii meets Timothy Leary" phase.

Now these might sound mean, uncalled for and negative ... but I politely say to myself ...

Thank you sir ... May I have another ... (used by permission .. Volk Graphic Designs).

My point ... here is the Greatest Steel Player on the planet ... who year after year ... takes the time to listen to my pathetic attempts ... free of charge ...

And replies WITHIN A WEEK of receiving the recordings .... with a handwritten critique ... always starting off with his "color commentary" .... followed by a list of items which he sees as "wrong" ... how to fix them ..... and then some kind of encouragment (even if it is steeped with satire) ....

Now as a high school teacher for 17 yrs ... his "tactics" may be somewhat frowned upon by the "administration" ...

But he always ends his critiques with "now try again ... and send it over ... IF you are still speakin' to me" ...

Well, I'm heavy into my Andy Iona /single string/vibrato phase now .... and I can't wait till June to send him this years recordin' of that ...

I usually start buildin' up my buttocks callus in early spring ...

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 07 November 2002 at 11:30 AM.]

Jim Vogan · Post by **Jim Vogan** » 7 Nov 2002 8:14 am

I took lessons from Ron Dearth of Lima, Ohio. He always called it "constructive criticsm ". I don't know if I spelled it right, but you know what I mean. It never offended me.

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Jim Vogan Emmons Sd10
G.D. Walker Stereo Steel Combo
Bakelite Ric
Hilton volume pedal

Steve Honum · Post by **Steve Honum** » 7 Nov 2002 12:28 pm

Didn't the Portugese introduce the guitar and Ukulele to Hawaii?
Steve H.
S8A6B11

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 7 Nov 2002 12:29 pm

herb, a well thought out and well written response.

Racism is racism, period.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 7 Nov 2002 12:46 pm

What was Hawaiian music before the Portuguese brought the braguinha (ancestor of the ukulele) in 1879?

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 7 Nov 2002 1:00 pm

It was the melodious thunder of erupting volcanoes....

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 7 Nov 2002 1:03 pm

Herb...I wish I had your talent for writing! Excellent! Why in hell was this subject brought up in the first place ? It mystifies me as every Hawaiian I have ever had the pleasure of meeting or playing with has never scorned me as a so called "haole". There are bigots in every race of mankind, Hawaiians are probably no exception. However, this phoney ALOHA SPIRIT Al refers to has always been very sincere. Perhaps Al instigated a negative reaction by his own negative attitude ?

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 7 Nov 2002 1:11 pm

Del Rangel · Post by **Del Rangel** » 7 Nov 2002 1:17 pm

Having the privilege of living on the big Island at the old Palani Ranch in Kailua Kona for a time, I have to say that all in all, it was the best time of my life. No Hawaiian or other local ever gave me grief, just other mullets such as myself from califunky who brought their piss poor attitudes with them. Aloha does exist and we could all use a little more of it--or so it seems.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 7 Nov 2002 1:18 pm

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 7 Nov 2002 2:31 pm

Nothing wise about it...it's just a crack...

Haven't put my hands on a volcano yet, but I plan to get as close as I can to one when I visit the Big Island in December...

I'll bring an umbrella to block any spraying lava...what was that disaster film they used to show us in school? ....Duck and Cover?

[This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 07 November 2002 at 03:40 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Nov 2002 8:41 am

I used to hear Marty Robbins sing of Kaluia Kona and fantasize about it....but after visiting the "Big" Island...I would move there and spend the rest of my days there if it was possible! From the seashore to the rain forests in less than an hour...unbelieveable. (I found that they don't have many steel-guitar players there either)

www.genejones.com

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 8 Nov 2002 7:07 pm

.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 March 2003 at 04:44 PM.]

R. L. Jones · Post by **R. L. Jones** » 8 Nov 2002 8:18 pm

I`ve always loved The sound of Hawaiian music, Still do,. My dad always said be careful when you spit straight up, you may get a little on you.

R. L.

mikey · Post by **mikey** » 9 Nov 2002 9:54 am

Al, you couldn't be more INCORRECT...I was born raised and lived in NJ (Haole central) for 30 years...I moved to Hawaii 20 years ago...I am a "white guy" in local dialect(I'd tell you my hawaiian name, but I can't spell or pronounce it but it means big,crazy,hairy, bearded white guy)...Haole is like , sorry, calling a black guy a "****** "...NO ONE likes a Haole...and haole does not mean White..It means no heart or Aloha....I've played w/local musicians here for the entire time I have lived here, and have never had a problem....(then again, I seldom do)...It's just like anything/anywhere else, if YOU are a stand up guy without a haole attitude, give respect, get respect....I and my family (my daughter was born here, goes to school here) have many Local Native Hawaiian friends, brothers,extended family,and I live in Ka'u on the Big Island, which has the largest population of 100% Hawaiians in the entire state of Hawaii...It all comes down to YOUR attitude and ALOHA
Mike

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 9 Nov 2002 11:21 am

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 9 Nov 2002 12:23 pm

When I lived in Hawaii, I found that being a
musician opened many doors that would've been normally closed to a Haole "surfa boy" like myself. Back then, I made no pretence of knowing anything about Hawaiian music, but I did get to play steel with alot of local musicians. I felt totally accepted and respected by everybody. I feel that Aloha still does exist when it comes to music.

Now paddling out on a good day at "Chun's" or Makaha was a "diffunt ting all togeda bra."

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 9 Nov 2002 12:43 pm

I always thought "Haole" was a 'good' term... but after reading a few of these posts, it really appears to be more of a 'dirty' word in reference...

Why are there albums entitled "Hapa Haole" Classics? Isn't the vintage Hawaiian music that we all love sometimes referred to as "Haole Hawaiian" Music?

So seriously, what's the big deal?

Signed,

An Igornant Naimlander

[This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 09 November 2002 at 12:51 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 9 Nov 2002 2:29 pm

.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 March 2003 at 04:46 PM.]

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 9 Nov 2002 5:29 pm

"...give respect, get respect...." You said a mouthful Mikey! Therein lies the secret. I love the Hawaiian people, their culture, their music and I respect them. As was stated above, many doors were opened because of this respect and because I am a musician who loves their music and (modestly) can play it. The "Aloha Spirit" is alive and well, believe me!

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 10 Nov 2002 9:59 am

Jody........there is a Gene Autry or somebody's guitar from Sears Roebuck on eBay at this time. It even has the original shipping box it arrived in. What a collector set!! No bookcase however.

I was honored to be asked to play steel in an all Hawaiian group's recording session a couple of weeks ago. They treat me as one...altho' I am respectful of them and I make no attempt to throw out Hawaiian words or terms.......to try and impress anyone. I am not one of them and never will be however there is a professional attitude amongst us.

They like my HAWAIIAN SOUNDING Steel playing, and selected me over several "real" Hawaiian steel players that are active in this area.

I've found them to be most courteous and their level of musicianship is far superior to the vast majority of c/w wanna-be pickers that I've been obliged to play with during the past 50 years. Even the 70 year old Uke player plays more, accurate chords on his six string tenor Uke than many of today's twangy Fender lead guitar players.

Tourist talk by non-Hawaiians, I believe, does more to alienate real Hawaiians than the mere fact we're white. Nothing worse than a phoney!

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Nov 2002 1:18 pm

Are ya'll ready for another long story?? Well
I'll try to make this a bit shorter than most
of my "novels".

Back in the early 1950's somewhere I guess,,
1951?? I first met a fine Hawaiian steel player by the name of Sam Makia.

Sam was Hawaiian through and through. He and
his wonderful group held the fort at the Hawaiian Room in the Hotel Lexington on Madison Ave in the heart of Manhattan.

Oh how I loved to go there to listen to Sam & his great group,the singers were great,it was a dream come true for me to get to see Sam Makia.

Sam played a Epiphone double neck and had a
console table made up for his guitar,he would
stand and play those great Hawaiian licks &
the sweet tone he got from his guitar amazed
me no end.

I got to know Sam and told him I had been playing steel and doing western music recordings etc,,,his comments were,,yeah,some
of those "cowboys" play allright,but they dont play "Hawaiian".

He called me a few months later to fill in for him at the Hawaiian Room,,,WHAT ME???????
I said Sam,,I cant play what you play,and besides I dont know any of those authentic Hawaiian tunes,,I can do Blue Hawaii etc etc.
He said Yody,,thats what he called me,,I often times corrected him,,but after a while
I said,,the hell with it,,Im Yody and thats that.

He asked me "please" fill in for me,,it seemed that his wife was very ill,,and she too was a member of the group.She and Sam sang those great falcetto (spell)? tunes together just like a Hawaiian version of Nelson Eddy and Jeanette McDonald, just knocked me out.

Much to my not wanting to do the thing,I asked Sam to please try to get someone else.
He understood my feelings and honored my request.
Trouble was,,he called me back and said,,hey
Yody.I spoke with the fellows and they will give you all the support you need,,just play
soft and when you are in doubt,just lay out.

I had no choice,I was commited. I went on the
job with my triple custom and set it up to a
sitting position. The first thing I was told
is Yody,,we dont sit down,use Sam's console
table if you wish but plesae stand up.

So thats what I did. I placed my triple custom on the stand that was made of "bamboo" and looked beautiful and made for
a nice presentation and Sam was right,it did
look better, but I still would rather have sat down.

I had much help from the band members and they treated me like I was one of them,there
was nothing they wouldn't do for me to help me.

Sam's wife was pretty ill and Sam asked me to stay on as long as he was unable to return
to the gig. They didnt call them "gigs" back them,well like a "club date" was more like it.
I began to feel at home and my playing although not nearly as good as Sam's was accepted. The band members loved the sound of the Fender Custom. I was able to keep away
from the traditional treble tone that Fender
guitars were known for,that thin sound that so many Hawaiian players dis-liked and I could very well understand.
I played through my Pro Amp with a 15" Jensen
speaker and was able to fill the room with my
gear. This brought a smile to all the members
of the band.

When Sam (thank goodness) returned he said,hey Yody,what kind of a guitar are you playing?? I said its a Fender,he said would
you let me use it for a couple of nights? sure Sam why not.

I did and Sam asked me where he could get one just like it but with a double neck and not a triple as I had.

Within one week there was a Dual Pro delivered to the Hawaiian Room along with a
Fender Pro amp. He called and said,,wow Yody
"how much is this going to cost me? I said
you already paid for it,,he said WHAT??? I told him what his musicians taught me in the time I was there was worth its weight in gold.

Regardless of how he thought I played,he didnt feel I was "the real deal" and he was
right,I wasn't.

I brought a recording of Red Foleys to the club one night and gave it to him to take home to listen to. It was Blues in My Heart
with JB on steel guitar.

A week or so later he called and said,,man Yody,,that Hawaiian cat plays some steel.I said Sam that cat is NOT Hawaiian. He said BS
Yody, I know a true blue Hawaiian when I hear
one.
I was not able to convince him that Jerry was
not Hawaiian. He would say,,Ok Yody,,so maybe
he's part Hawaiian,,I would say NO..he then said,,well maybe his relatives were Hawaiian
and that I couldnt answer,how did I know if Jerry somewhere in his family back round was not in fact a Hawaiian.

Not long after getting Sam to take a photo of himself and his band posing with his new
found toy his Dual Pro,,the Namm show was coming up in New York. Back then all the Namm
shows were alternated between New York and Chicago. There were no big arena's as they have today,all they would use was a suite or something of that nature. It was great,there was always soemthing about those days I'll never forget,we would use the bathrooms as a
place to keep the empty cartons if you had to use the can,,you would have to ad'lib or use a carton

.The bathrooms served as a
storage for the instruments that were on display.

I invited Sam to the Hotel New Yorker to meet this Hawaiian player by the name of Jerry Byrd. We went to the Rickenbacker room
where Jerry was holding the fort down doing what he does best.

Sam's eyes were wide open as he watched Jerry
slipping and sliding that dammed bar and reversing the bar as he always did with grace and precision. He turned to me and said
DAMM YODY,,,you are right,this cat isnt Hawiian,hell he's not even human.

I then was able to introduce JB to Sam and they hit it off right away. I did say Sam,,dont you get any idea's and switch over to a Rickenbacker,of course I was kidding with Sam. F.C. Hall then owner and president
of Rickenbacker asked me to ask Sam to sit in and play a few tunes.

I did and Sam said..hell NO..you dammed cowboy steel players are in your own world and with that gave his approval of how great
the "great one JB" played. A few days later a few of the top Hawaiian steel players in the New York area asked me if they could come to see and hear this newly found Messiah
who was NOT in fact A Hawaiian..People like
Hal Aloma,Abe Kolumpus,George Menin,all filipinos or true Hawaiians. Every Hawaiian was there bar none,,Leilani Lipshitz,,Maholo
Esposito,,Benny Boccugolupe.Tondelayo Goldberg,,every body.What a day,what a crowd.
I felt so Hawiian,I could eat a pineapple with a toothpick. (only kidding Jerry)

Sure there is a sort of attitude re players
who are not recognized as authentic Hawaiian,that also rolls over into the country field as well,,many times I was told.
Hey "you play good for a New Yorker" I would never have known if you hadn't opened your mouth and heard that New York accent.

I do believe there are those who will take exception to this story and refuse to accept the fact that as far as I could see,,Jerry Byrd was was he was and still is great and whoever feels that Jerry Byrd dont sound Hawaiian,,,then I have wasted my time. Could there be a few who resent Jerry possibly because they may have taken lessons from him
and Jerry not wanting them to waste their time or money advised them of such???

If thats so,,then Jerry is an Honest man,,how could anyone take issue with an Icon
like Jerry Byrd,,we all admired the "Admiral"
everyone from Buddy to Chalker to Morell and
Anderson, and even YODY...so thats the deal.

You dont realize that I may although I bend your ears,, I did start early on in my career
if you want to call it that,,but it gives more to add to my book. And for that I thank you.

There will NEVER be another JERRY BYRD,NEVER.
Thats what Sam told me a few months before he passed away a few years ago, He said,Yody
I'll never doubt anything you tell me. I said
Sam,,I think I play better than you,

he said,,well,,"I DOUBT THAT"

but if it makes
you feel better,,,OK,,,you do, but dont tell
anyone,

he was a wonderful man and a great
steel player. And this story is sooooo long
that bOb Lee will put me out to pasture.

Im going to take the liberty of adding my copyright to this,,you guys are helping me write my book and you dont even know it

Thanks BTW...before I forget..even the steel players of Italian decent were bragging that
Jerry Bryd may be Italian..I said ,,well maybe so,,,his name may very well be Jerry
Byrdinelli,,now thats a real Hawaiian name for ya.

YODY Aloha and goodbye.

Im part Hawaiian,,if you dont believe me,,you wanna see my lei???

Yody Revrac edited to make this LONGER....

WHY THE SILENCE??? Ya'll fallen asleep?? I see what I wrote at the top of this post that
I would make this a short post,,I meant to
but I failed miserably. edited to give Jerry an authentic Italian name,I dont want those Italians with the wide brimmed hats coming after me,,I dont need any Offers from
Italians.

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Copyright(c) 2002 by
Jody Carver "All Rights
Reserved"

Authentic Hawaiians reply,,all others Fuhgeddaboudit and Aloha Oy. Boy this is a long long post.Woweee.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 11 November 2002 at 06:25 AM.]