Those Vocal real books.

[Daniel Holden]

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Vocal-Book- ... 0813&psc=1

Seems interesting from a lap steel standpoint, if you want to do some slow jazz. They give you the chord, and since it's jazz, you don't need to read the melody, just improvise it within the chord. Do some chord melody and such. I'm considering buying one.

Has anyone else ever tried these kinds of books and applied them to lap steel, or does any of you have a recommendation for a book?

[Lloyd Graves]

My wife has one lying around from her time in college. With guidance from his piano teacher, my 15yo son is doing what you've mentioned. Using the chord charts, he creates shel voicings, then adds "color."

Those are the words they use, anyhow. And it sounds pretty.

I play high bass A, so I don't have all the pretty voicings built in to try it myself. Maybe C#minor or B11 is in my future.

[Paul Seager]

Has anyone else ever tried these kinds of books and applied them to lap steel, or does any of you have a recommendation for a book?

I play jazz and swing, just-for-fun, on both bass and steel and I have a collection of Real and New Real books, (as well as the iRealPro app, which is generally what I take to sessions these days).
The songs in the Vocal book are probably the easier melodies to work with and a good choice for tip toeing into the jazz world.
It is worth reading and learning melodies just to give one more colour when playing solos. A listener will love the melody to "Fly Me To The Moon" and it's a useful skill to throw in snippets of the melody into a solo (maybe even on another song!)

Maybe C#minor or B11 is in my future.

B11 is a good choice for swing. You have the A6 intervals on top, great for melodies and solos and the B11 gives you a ii-V in every position, useful for a lot of vocal swing numbers. Somewhere on the Forum, Doug Beaumier published a simple chord chart showing the relationship between A6 and B11. It's a great starter!

[Douglas Schuch]

Many of the REAL BOOKS, including at least one of the VOCAL REAL BOOKS can be downloaded as PDF's for free if you search for them online.

[Michael Kiese]

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Vocal-Book- ... 0813&psc=1

Seems interesting from a lap steel standpoint, if you want to do some slow jazz. They give you the chord, and since it's jazz, you don't need to read the melody, just improvise it within the chord. Do some chord melody and such. I'm considering buying one.

Has anyone else ever tried these kinds of books and applied them to lap steel, or does any of you have a recommendation for a book?

Aloha Dan!

All the NEW REAL Books and the Hal Leonard REAL Books are licensed and fairly accurate. I'd say go for it, and buy a real copy for yourself.

I'd caution you to not cheat yourself out of your own growth, MELODY IS KING. You DO need to know the melody of the song. It's often the most recognizable part of the song, and the thing listeners will remember. Melody is also one of the best ways to navigate the chord progression of a song. Whether you sing or play an instrumental, you NEED TO KNOW THE MELODY.

That said...

The old school bootleg versions that are available online for free...much of the time are scanned copies from the early days of the unlicensed "Back room of the music store" real/fake books...those are riddled with inaccuracies and sometimes flat out wrong chords and melodies. You'll save money, but bad charts will confuse you and make you learn things wrong. Then you have to unlearn them down the road. Don't do that to yourself.

Many times, what happened with the original bootleg fake books is that the person who wrote the chart would either just get it wrong, or they would take too many liberties reharmonizing the chords to where the song is completely unrecognizable from the original recording, or is very impractical to play.

The NEW REAL Book series is GREAT, as it offers the best format because all the songs are visually laid out well, easy to read, have the melody AND the lyrics for most songs.

The only Hal Leonard Real Book series that have the lyrics is the Real Vocal Book. Knowing lyrics is important, and singing is VERY advantageous for performing music. I always thought that it was a business choice for Hal Leonard to not include the lyrics in their regular REAL book series, they want you to buy more books. Playing nothing but instrumentals on a live gig is a great way to lose an audience, unless you're playing a dinner gig or a society gig where the purpose of the music is to be providing background ambiance. All of a sudden, you sing the lyrics to a great jazz tune and people start paying attention.

So the tradeoff is getting the pirated stuff online is free, but you don't know what you're gonna get....VS....Buying a licensed Real Book or New Real Book, and the versions are easy to read and accurate, and the composers (or their families) of the music we love and play get compensated for their work.

Ultimately Real Books serve a utilitarian and pragmatic purpose. They can be used as a crutch, which is a frustration for old jazz musicians who memorized all their tunes. That said, I truly believe that the Real Books kept Jazz from completely dying out, and they make jazz approachable for beginners.

It's always best to learn a song by ear and internalize it, and memorize it. But honestly, I only do that with songs I personally REALLY LOVE. I don't bother to keep 3 hours of Jazz repertoire in my head so I can play dinner music in a restaurant for $150. lol.

Buy the Hal Leonard Vocal Real Book, and/or a NEW REAL Book. Look up the songs they have in them, and the keys of the songs before you purchase.

Enjoy!

[Daniel Holden]

Yeah, i understand melody, my plan is it listen to the song and go from there, I've got a decent ear that way. In general, I just want to mimic as best I can the vocals with chord tones.

[Michael Kiese]

They give you the chord, and since it's jazz, you don't need to read the melody, just improvise it within the chord.

Aloha Daniel,

Understood. I was referring to the comment above.

In any music including Jazz, know the melody. Improvising the melody is a result of not knowing the melody.

The tradition of Jazz is to play the melody through the song form, then improvise solos, and then go back the melody to end the song.

The more you make it about improvisation, the more you make it about you, and not the song or the music. When musicians do that, they tend to lose the audience.

Writing a great Melody is HARD. We do a disservice to ourselves and the songwriters when we don't give melody it's proper due care and respect.

We all owe a great debt to the great songwriters and composers of the past. Without them, we'd have no music to perform.

Just my 2¢, take it with a grain of salt. If it helps, it helps, if it doesn't, that's ok too.

Main thing is that you enjoy yourself.

Enjoy!

[Mike Neer]

I have a ton of old fake books, and the best ones are the old books of standards. I used to buy them under the counter at a local music store, Sweetest Sounds. My uncle recently gave me some of my grandfather’s fake books from the 1950s and 60s, one of which is an older version of my favorite book of standards. The old one even has a half dozen or so Hawaiian tunes. This is the copy I’ve had for 40+ years. As a vocalist, I also own the original Real Vocal Book and the Real Book Solos, both of which I bought back in the 80s. I wonder how the new version compares?

1D6BEBBF-8CD6-4A1C-B124-A615C7860B30.jpeg

Re melody, when I improvise at my best I am creating new melodies. Yes, I love playing all kinds of stuff like Coltrane and trying to stretch the harmony as far as possible, etc., but when I am at my best I am creating melody. It’s kind of like writing—you really can’t write a good book if you don’t read the classics. I think of melody the same way. And I think of improvisation that way now, too. Miles Davis was a pretty significant factor in that regard.

Regardless of what you choose to do, furthering your knowledge and repertoire on the instrument is always a good thing, and I salute that.

[Michael Kiese]

As a vocalist, I also own the original Real Vocal Book and the Real Book Solos, both of which I bought back in the 80s. I wonder how the new version compares?

Aloha Mike,

The latest real vocal books come in a high voice version and a low voice version. So the same songs, just in different keys.

The new versions of the Real Book and The New Real Book which are officially licensed are superior to the old fake books, and superior to their old editions.

One chart that comes to mind from an old unlicensed fake book (don't remember which one) was "Mr. Magic". That chart was hot garbage. Wrong melody, wrong chords.

Sometimes you lose titles that were in the unlicensed versions because the licensed versions were not able to license specific songs. Even different editions of licensed versions would have missing titles from the previous version.

For example, songs by certain songwriters like Henry Mancini seem to pop up in some versions, and disappear in others. Which leads me to speculate if the Mancini estate charged high prices for licensing. It's like "Hey! Where did Days of Wine and Roses go?" lol.

But generally speaking, the latest versions of the Real Book, and especially the NEW REAL Book are very good and accurate. Much more accurate than their previous versions and other unlicensed fake book versions.

This is just from years of Jazz combo experience playing background music for dinners, engagements, and shows. The bad charts are usually from the unlicensed fake books. Hence "Fake" vs "Real" book. The "Fake Books" were usually unlicensed, and the "Real Books" were licensed.

The "New Real Book" series, in my opinion, stand atop the heap. Spiral binded, large, easy to read. Good selection of songs, and well written charts with melodies, lyrics, and nice layout. There's nothing worse than reading a chart with uneven numbers of bars on each line....ugh.

[Michael Kiese]

Here's why in my opinion, the NEW REAL Book series by Sher Music Co is the best series of Real Books.

They're larger, and spiral binded vs Comb binded like the Hal Leonard Real books. Spiral binding is superior to comb binding. Comb binding can easily become unbinded. Furthermore, the spiral binding allows the book to lay completely flat.

All the charts in the New Real Book have a nice layout with 4 bars per line. They also have accurate melody, lyrics, and chords.

Notice how the Hal Leonard Real Books will shove odd numbers of bars on each line, which makes reading them and especially Sight Reading them, unnecessarily more difficult. Why put 3 bars per line, Hal Leonard? WHHHYYYY?? The worst is when 7 bars per line show up.

Both the New Real Book by Sher Music Co and the Hal Leonard Real Book series are good.

I just think the physically larger paper, spiral binding, and excellent 4 bar per line layout of the New Real Book series makes it a cut above the rest.

I have both and use both, but the New Real Book always provides a welcoming sigh of relief when one of their charts show up on your music stand.

It's almost as if the New Real Book series by Sher Music Co were written by musicians for musicians. All the most important things you need in a nice layout, and nothing else.

They're both good and will get you there. And both are superior to the old unlicensed fake books.

Hope that helped!

Enjoy!

[David M Brown]

...and New Real books,

Here's why in my opinion, the NEW REAL Book series by Sher Music Co is the best series of Real Books.
...... They also have accurate melody, lyrics, and chords.
.

I've had mixed feelings about those Sher New Real Books. They have a lot of good stuff in them but often the chord changes are so over-reharmonized and substituted that they border on just plain wrong changes, so be careful.

[Michael Kiese]

...and New Real books,

Here's why in my opinion, the NEW REAL Book series by Sher Music Co is the best series of Real Books.
...... They also have accurate melody, lyrics, and chords.
.

I've had mixed feelings about those Sher New Real Books. They have a lot of good stuff in them but often the chord changes are so over-reharmonized and substituted that they border on just plain wrong changes, so be careful.

Aloha David,

Can you please provide me an example from the New Real Book? I've found it to be a good resource.

Clearly just from the picture, you can see the changes for All of Me and All the Things you Are. Pretty standard stuff. Any reharmonizations/substitutions are in parenthesis above the "usual" chords. I've seen the last A section of "All the Things You Are" harmonized a couple of different ways, but I wouldn't call this way "wrong" per se. Also my ear is used to going from D half diminished, G7, Cmaj7 in the A section, but this has a regular ii7, V7, I. Plain jane ii, V, but it works.

That said, any old editions of any publication can have errors in it to be sure. The newer the edition, the better is usually the case.

A lot of times disagreements between "wrong" and "right" are from the different recordings individuals perceive as the standard recording. Much of the time the recordings we think are the standard changes were actually reharms or subs from the original broadway score.

To that end, I suppose the only "right" recording for a lot of standards would be the original changes from the Broadway musical itself.

But if you provide a good example of a chart from the New Real Book, we can analyze it together for the good and benefit of the forum. There would be value in that. We could all learn something.

Maybe we could start a new thread.

Would be a fun exercise!

[Michael Kiese]

Here's a good example of that bad Mr. Magic Chart. lol.

I found it just by googling "Mr. Magic" and searching the images

The melody is so jacked up, and it's written below the staff. AND there's 3 bars per line!!!! WHYYYYY??? haha.

This chart gives me PTSD every time I look at it. smdh. lol.

https://www.ariamus.com/score.php?score=12428

[David M Brown]

Aloha David,

Can you please provide me an example from the New Real Book? I've found it to be a good resource.
........
But if you provide a good example of a chart from the New Real Book, we can analyze it together for the good and benefit of the forum. There would be value in that. We could all learn something.

Maybe we could start a new thread.

Would be a fun exercise!

I'll try to find some examples. The ones you mentioned are fine. It may be from some of the older books .
Just looking at book one:

"Bernie's Tune". the second chord, Bb9, does not match the E natural (Fb) in the melody. I'd suggest Bb7b5 instead.

I'd have to look further in the 3 books I have.

Cheers

[David M Brown]

Here's a good example of that bad Mr. Magic Chart. lol.

I found it just by googling "Mr. Magic" and searching the images

The melody is so jacked up, and it's written below the staff. AND there's 3 bars per line!!!! WHYYYYY??? haha.

This chart gives me PTSD every time I look at it. smdh. lol.

https://www.ariamus.com/score.php?score=12428

Good one - that chart is just plain wrong! We used to play that back in the day, and had to learn it off the record, as well we should have.

Thanks for the laugh, I had forgotten how lousy that version was.

[Michael Kiese]

Here's a good example of that bad Mr. Magic Chart. lol.

I found it just by googling "Mr. Magic" and searching the images

The melody is so jacked up, and it's written below the staff. AND there's 3 bars per line!!!! WHYYYYY??? haha.

This chart gives me PTSD every time I look at it. smdh. lol.

https://www.ariamus.com/score.php?score=12428

Good one - that chart is just plain wrong! We used to play that back in the day, and had to learn it off the record, as well we should have.

Thanks for the laugh, I had forgotten how lousy that version was.

Brother... This EXACT chart marks my earliest Jazz PTSD moment.

I was playing Sax (my first instrument), and this old timer bass player pulls this chart of his folder. He gives me the C version, (so I had to sight transpose everything up a whole step as I was playing Tenor Sax), and then I play it as written. I was having difficulty because not only was I sight transposing, but the phrasing was off, it's written below the staff so it's in the lowest range of the sax, and the melody is wrong! It's so jarring to sight transpose a wrongly written melody, especially when you know how the song is supposed to sound.

Then the old timer bass player told me "What's a matter Mike? Can't read?", while grinning at me as if I failed his test. That's when I realized that HE can't read music, and that he set me up for failure either wittingly or unwittingly. Whether he did it wittingly or unwittingly, it's an equally bad indictment on his character and ability.

So what do you do in that situation? Fight back and prove how the guy is an idiot? Or say nothing and be thought of as incompetent. I was in my late Teens at the time so I chose option 1. LOL.

SMDH. Musicians are a bunch of characters. lol.

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha David,

Can you please provide me an example from the New Real Book? I've found it to be a good resource.
........
But if you provide a good example of a chart from the New Real Book, we can analyze it together for the good and benefit of the forum. There would be value in that. We could all learn something.

Maybe we could start a new thread.

Would be a fun exercise!

I'll try to find some examples. The ones you mentioned are fine. It may be from some of the older books .
Just looking at book one:

"Bernie's Tune". the second chord, Bb9, does not match the E natural (Fb) in the melody. I'd suggest Bb7b5 instead.

I'd have to look further in the 3 books I have.

Cheers

For sure, all the older Fakebooks and older licensed Real books tend to have mistakes in them. From what I've seen, the licensed ones tend to be much better than the unlicensed ones, and the newest versions of the licensed ones tend to be the best.

I think Book 1 of the Hal Leonard Real Book Series went through 6 editions.

The only reason why I noticed all this is because I spent a career as an Army Bandsman. Uncle Sam bought all our material, so I got to see all the changes throughout the editions.

To that end, I think the topic thread of analyzing charts really would be helpful for other players.

Let's do it! I really think it would be fun and beneficial.

[Mike Neer]

These are copies of a few of the pre-legal Real Books: Real Vocal and Real Solos and Transcriptions (super rare, I’ve never seen another). I bought these in the 80s.
The World’s Greatest Fakebook, which is legal (Scher), lives up to its title, IMO, but it is jazz oriented. Norton (a website that sells BIAB files) has a disk with all the tunes in this book. They also have them for every other fakebook under the sun. It’s pretty crazy.

IMG_0135.jpeg

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[Michael Kiese]

These are copies of a few of the pre-legal Real Books: Real Vocal and Real Solos and Transcriptions (super rare, I’ve never seen another). I bought these in the 80s.
The World’s Greatest Fakebook, which is legal (Scher), lives up to its title, IMO, but it is jazz oriented. Norton (a website that sells BIAB files) has a disk with all the tunes in this book. They also have them for every other fakebook under the sun. It’s pretty crazy.
IMG_0135.jpegIMG_0133.jpeg

Hey Mike!

I'm not familiar with "The World's Greatest Fakebook". Maybe because it was before my time *grin*. Just kidding, lol.

But if it's from Chuck Sher and it's licensed, I'd be willing to bet that it's a good book. I really like the stuff that Sher published. Chuck Sher REALLY knows how to write a good chart.

Like every other musician, we have all gone through the "pass round the thumb drive" routine. I have every book known to man at this point, but I've pretty much stuck to the publishings of the Hal Leonard Real Books, and Sher's New Real Book series. I much prefer the New Real Book charts over any other. The Hal Leonard stuff is good, but they have a bad habit of putting odd numbers of bars on lines. So irritating.

I was more than happy to use Uncle Sam's money to buy licensed paperback copies. Our Army Band libraries were chock full of The New Real Book and Hal Leonard Real Books, amongst others.

When a New Real Book style chart hit my music stand, it was always a wave of relief. Kinda like when you read an arrangement by Sammy Nestico. You KNOW it's going to sound great, and it's written well.