Fender 800 D/C# Feel Stop

[Paul Strojan]

I have been thinking about using a block and tackle to put in a feel stop on my 2 and 9 string knee lever lower. The lower to D would be on the block gaining the mechanical advantage while the C# lower would be on the free end without mechanical advantage. That way the C# lower won't start engaging until the D change has completed. Thoughts?

[Bob Carlucci]

Er umm, block and tackle?? A bit of overkill in my opinion. You are thinking much like way to many pedal steel players in that you think you cannot play without a rock solid,unmistakable,set in stone 'feel stop'.. I owned three fender 800 guitars over the years, and on the two that had levers I installed a plain old mushy half step on string two using the simple pull on string nine, the way its been done for sixty years. Never a problem, I adjusted to it and I am only an average player. You will adjust too if you give it some effort.

[J.C. Dijeres]

Er umm, block and tackle?? A bit of overkill in my opinion. You are thinking much like way to many pedal steel players in that you think you cannot play without a rock solid,unmistakable,set in stone 'feel stop'.. I owned three fender 800 guitars over the years, and on the two that had levers I installed a plain old mushy half step on string two using the simple pull on string nine, the way its been done for sixty years. Never a problem, I adjusted to it and I am only an average player. You will adjust too if you give it some effort.

Can anyone explain this to me? I play a 400 with a 4x4 setup RKR lowers the D# to D how would using a free pull finger give me a feel stop, let’s say using string 7.

Thanks

[Paul Strojan]

Er umm, block and tackle?? A bit of overkill in my opinion. You are thinking much like way to many pedal steel players in that you think you cannot play without a rock solid,unmistakable,set in stone 'feel stop'.. I owned three fender 800 guitars over the years, and on the two that had levers I installed a plain old mushy half step on string two using the simple pull on string nine, the way its been done for sixty years. Never a problem, I adjusted to it and I am only an average player. You will adjust too if you give it some effort.

Can anyone explain this to me? I play a 400 with a 4x4 setup RKR lowers the D# to D how would using a free pull finger give me a feel stop, let’s say using string 7.

Thanks

The way it works on an all-pull guitar is that string 9 doesn't start to move until string 2 has lowered to D. How that works on a cable guitar, I am not sure. With about 20 dollars and a few trips to the hardware store, I think you could rig up something that would work similarly. What you want is the pull to get harder at the point when you reach the D note. If you were to add a second cable off of the RKR and attach it to an eyebolt that has a spring that engages when the D note is reached to increase tension on the way to C#.

[J.C. Dijeres]

Thanks, this makes perfect sense!

[Ian Worley]

A feel stop requires two independent pull rods, it doesn't work on a cable guitar with a split yoke where both strings pull together. I don't think the second cable idea will work as you want, I think the only practical way to make a half stop work on a cable guitar is with a separate spring loaded mechanism similar to a conventional PSG half stop, but set up as a bumper of some sort at the changer to add a noticeable resistance at the intermediate note stop point. It shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate.

[Bob Carlucci]

Yes, it DOES work and works well,. I know this because I did it on two different guitars. It works the same as any other all pull guitar.. Remember the adjustments are at the changer .. I can do it on a Fender pedal guitar with 2 up 2 down changer in 5 minutes.... bob

[Bob Carlucci]

Er umm, block and tackle?? A bit of overkill in my opinion. You are thinking much like way to many pedal steel players in that you think you cannot play without a rock solid,unmistakable,set in stone 'feel stop'.. I owned three fender 800 guitars over the years, and on the two that had levers I installed a plain old mushy half step on string two using the simple pull on string nine, the way its been done for sixty years. Never a problem, I adjusted to it and I am only an average player. You will adjust too if you give it some effort.

Can anyone explain this to me? I play a 400 with a 4x4 setup RKR lowers the D# to D how would using a free pull finger give me a feel stop, let’s say using string 7.

Thanks

I have only done the feel stop off of string 9 on Fender 800 guitars .. That is a double raise double lower changer.. Your 400 is a single raise/ lower
if I am not mistaken,, I don;t think it would be possible on your changer. There are other ways to do it, but I am the wrong guy to answer as to how, as I don't know much about the 400/1000 Fender steels.. Had a 400 for a short time, and didn't like it, and sold it before I became familiar with it... bob

[J.C. Dijeres]

Got it, thanks for the follow up. My question was out of sheer curiosity, I’ll look into a traditional/spring feel stop. My knee levers do use rods not cables, should be a fairly straightforward installation.

[Ian Worley]

...It works the same as any other all pull guitar...

That's the point Bob, there's not much about an 800/2000 that is the same as a typical all pull guitar. You didn't actually explain how you set it up, but from your description I'm assuming you rigged it with two separate cables using both of the lowers on string 2. The first cable would pull string 2 to D in one of the two lowering slots, and the second cable would pull both 2 and 9 to C#, engaging the changer right at the point you hit the first D lower. Is that correct? That's not quite the same as a conventional feel stop on an all pull guitar but it would work.

[Bob Carlucci]

...It works the same as any other all pull guitar...

That's the point Bob, there's not much about an 800/2000 that is the same as a typical all pull guitar. You didn't actually explain how you set it up, but from your description I'm assuming you rigged it with two separate cables using both of the lowers on string 2. The first cable would pull string 2 to D in one of the two lowering slots, and the second cable would pull both 2 and 9 to C#, engaging the changer right at the point you hit the first D lower. Is that correct? That's not quite the same as a conventional feel stop on an all pull guitar but it would work.

I used the factory double cable, put one hook on the 2nd string, other hook on the 9th, and then used the endplate adjustments.. I forgot the exact way I set it up, its been many years now, but I do know it was the factory cable... It was NOT a precise perfect feel stop, but it was workable..bob