Universal pedal 6 - lever vs pedal?

[Andrew Frost]

E9/B6 players, do you have a designated P6 function ( lowering string 8E a whole step ) on the floor or do you economize by putting it on a lever?

Putting it on the lever potentially frees up a pedal and can also function more or less as the 'missing' D string of E9 instead of raising 9B-D. So it makes sense to use this approach. I've tried it, but found it to be less than ideal because of the way it interacted with the E lever that lowers string 4&8.

But I'm sure it could work very well.

Maybe if I set it up to lower 8 E-D and also raise string 4 up a half from D# back to E, when Es are lowered, it would have more intuitive flow.

Thoughts?

[Lee Baucum]

Here is what I had on my first universal. Be sure to read the notes.

https://b0b.com/tunings/baucum.htm

[Toshiyuki Shoji]

Since I mainly play E9/B6, I’d like to share my copedent with you.
I hope it will be helpful as a reference.

My copedent is based on those of Steve Sanford, "Cowboy" Eddie Long, and Mitsuo Fujii, all of whom are dedicated E9/B6 players.

I have removed the change that raises the 9th string from B to D, and instead assigned the P6 function—lowering the E string down to D—to the RKR lever.
In other words, when you want to use the P6 change, you simply release the “4th string E → Eb” and then press the RKR lever.

Pressing the 0 pedal and A pedal simultaneously produces the same effect as P7.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I thought about eliminating the 9th string B to D, but I like the fullness of the 9th string B to D with the 8th string E when playing a 13th chord. There are many nice sounds coming from that B to D when also "half" pedaling the A pedal (augmented), then adding the B to D for the b7. Playing A and B down (open A chord), the 9th string C# and pulling it up to D (suspended). There are other nice changes that I've found with it. So, I keep it where it is and lower the 8th string E to D with a floor pedal. I have 6 knee levers.

[Andrew Frost]

Thanks for the replies.

I have tried out the 'pedal 6 on a lever' approach and what I didn't like was that using it in typical fashion while holding Es lowered, there would be a bump in the lever travel because string 8 would already be lowered a half step.
The other weird thing while holding Es lowered and engaging that ped6 lever was the resulting D# on string 4 and D natural on string 8.
I think Lee's approach would be the best solution to that issue, and it is not untypical to have that string 4 return to E on pedal 6.
I'm not sure how that would be done so that string 4 stays at E if the pedal 6 lever is activated independently.
Not sure if that's possible by using the extra rod split tune approach?
Any info there would be appreciated.

Toshi describes letting off the E lower before engaging that pedal 6 lever so the transition would not have the bump and the resultant E9 voicing would have E on 4 and D on 8.
That makes sense, but being being able to stay in 'B6 mode' and activate the diminished pedals ( or any other pedals ) without having that extra step of letting off the E lowers would be, I think, more intuitive and closer to the feel of playing C6.
But therein lies one of several trade-offs and compromises one makes in seeking a universal approach I suppose.

[Andrew Frost]

Yes Dennis I agree the B-D lever is in itself a beautiful thing. Tons of great stuff with it that just isn't possible on standard E9.

[David Wren]

Way back in 1970, I replaced the "D" string on my D-10 E9th neck, with a lever lowering the lower E down to D.... (and added a bottom E string to the tuning).

Since then, on my new Williams U-12 I kept the "pedal 6" on RKL, AND moved "pedal 5" to the opposing LKR lever. I now can use them with either tuning (I do use a lock lever to lower E's to Eb)... AND as stated above, it freed up 2 foot pedals for additional 6th pedal changes.

Pretty recent, but so far it seems to be working out for me.

[Andrew Frost]

Interesting David. I'm guessing your E lowers are on RR?

[David Wren]

No, my RR lever lowers my Bs to Bb. I do lower string 4 and 8 Es to Eb with a forward staggered LKL, but mostly rely on my "lock" lever to lower both Es for the B6th tuning.

D_wren2025Copedent.jpg

Hope this helps.