1 in every 270,000 people Globally is a Steel Guitar Player

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha All,

Since we now live in the world of AI, I decided to ask Grok and ChatGPT to estimate how many steel guitar players there are in the world. I ran each's other's responses by the other.

Grok came in with a conservative estimate of 5,000–25,000 steel guitar players worldwide.

ChatGPT originally came in with a high estimate of 100,000 worldwide steel players until I gave it Grok's response. Then ChatGPT changed its tune to an estimate of 10,000-30,000 players worldwide.

Even with a high estimate of 30,000 players worldwide, given a current world population of 8.1 billion people...1 in every 270,000 people globally is a steel guitar player.

I'd like to say that we're all "One in a Million", but we're not that special. lol. We're only "One in 270,000".

Hopefully this will stir some thoughtful and humorous discourse.

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Grok's estimates:
Global Estimate: 5,000–25,000 steel guitar players worldwide.
Pedal Steel: 2,000–5,000 (professionals/hobbyists, mainly in country/gospel).
Lap Steel/Hawaiian: 3,000–10,000 (driven by accessibility, Hawaiian music).
Hobbyists: 5,000–10,000 (casual players, limited by complexity/cost).

ChatGPT's estimates:
• Best-supported total estimate: ~10,000–30,000 worldwide, with 5,000–10,000 active/serious players
• Pedal Steel: 2,000–5,000
• Lap/Hawaiian/Console: 3,000–10,000
• Dabblers & hobbyists: another 5,000–15,000 (depending how loosely we define “player”)

[David Rattray]

Haa... Molly just told me see I am not that special ...thanks Michael...

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[Fred Treece]

There are 23,325 Steel Guitar Forum members. Probably safe to say the bulk of them are steel players (pedal/lap/resonator), and even safer to say that’s probably not even half the number of players worldwide.

The topic comes up every once in a while.
https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/006392.html

[Michael Kiese]

There are 23,325 Steel Guitar Forum members. Probably safe to say the bulk of them are steel players (pedal/lap/resonator), and even safer to say that’s probably not even half the number of players worldwide.

The topic comes up every once in a while.
https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/006392.html

Aloha Fred,

Kindly allow me to push back a bit. There’s not much data on this topic, so every figure is going to be an estimation.

How many of those forum 23,325 members are verified to still be alive? If I kick the bucket today and this is my last post, how long would I still be considered a member? Probably a very long time. None of my friends and family would even think to report my passing to this forum. Even Facebook doesn’t have a 100% accurate method of matching accounts to living people.

Therefore that 23,325 number cannot be treated as a solid number, but rather as a high estimation. Furthermore, how many forum members are actively playing steel guitar, or are just hobbyists who are interested in steel? There are likely a lot of inactive members who do not play steel.

As far as worldwide players I respectfully disagree that it’s a “safe assumption” to double the amount of forum members. That needs to be backed up by data.

Perhaps there are other steel guitar forums online, other than this one? That would bolster your case.

All that being said, if we assume your case to be true, a population of 50,000 compared against 8.1 billion people, is still a very small number.

Compared to a high estimate of 800,000 guitar players worldwide, we are a very small demographic, indeed.

Steel players may very well be the smallest demographic of musicians whose instrument is heard on popular 1st world music.

[Fred Treece]

The difference between my result and yours is the amount of thought, effort, and sincerity that went into the process.

So after giving it some more serious thought, I have determined that the question is, for all intense and purposes, unanswerable.

A much easier question is how many people make their living playing steel guitars, and the answer is exactly 14.

[Dave Mudgett]

Yes, there are many forum members who are no longer with us. I don't know the percentage, but I'd wager a guess of around 25%. But there are a lot of steel players out there who are not members of the Steel Guitar Forum. I run into them lots, and that's just in my neck of the woods which is the northeast and mid-east/south US. At least half of the steel players I run into are not members - frequently younger players who don't find this place all that relevant. And this doesn't begin to consider worldwide. I stopped counting steel guitar-related facebook groups when it hit 60 several years back. I believe it's well over 100 now. I'm confident that fb steel groups comprise a significant non-intersecting set of steel players.

Of course, the question is not directly answerable. Not exactly sure what AI adds to this.

[Fred Treece]

The topics of conversation on SGF deal mostly with technical and mechanical issues, and it is a great resource for that. Younger musicians are more interested in talking about the actual music they’re making. At 68, even I wish there was more of that here. I realize it is difficult to talk and write about music sometimes, and easier now just to post a clip. I doubt if I would have joined the forum in my 20’s or 30’s, but I still might have used it as a resource for making mechanical adjustments, or tunings, or maybe some tips on technique or sound.

So if an entire generation of players is basically MIA from SGF, then we are SOL trying to guess how many active players there are in the world.

[Michael Kiese]

A much easier question is how many people make their living playing steel guitars, and the answer is exactly 14.

This comment for the win!!! LMAO!!!

[Michael Kiese]

Yes, there are many forum members who are no longer with us. I don't know the percentage, but I'd wager a guess of around 25%. But there are a lot of steel players out there who are not members of the Steel Guitar Forum. I run into them lots, and that's just in my neck of the woods which is the northeast and mid-east/south US. At least half of the steel players I run into are not members - frequently younger players who don't find this place all that relevant. And this doesn't begin to consider worldwide. I stopped counting steel guitar-related facebook groups when it hit 60 several years back. I believe it's well over 100 now. I'm confident that fb steel groups comprise a significant non-intersecting set of steel players.

Of course, the question is not directly answerable. Not exactly sure what AI adds to this.

It's worth asking ChatGPT and/or Grok for yourself. I encourage you to try it. There's nothing to lose, regardless if you change your mind or not. Grok is capable of doing a deep internet search of up-to-the-second data. Of course it does have limits, and the true answer is ultimately unknowable. It's almost like asking "how many people like vanilla ice cream in the world".

That said, AI is capable of doing an analyzed approximation with the limited data that is available. It's certainly a better than any of us wagering a guess.

I'm sure there are a lot of overlap of group members of between the SGF, Facebook Groups, X, Instagram, etc. So that compounds things.

Having read Grok and ChatGPT's analysis and cross referencing both against the other, I'm comfortable saying that a worldwide estimate of 30,000 steel players is a high estimate. That's just what I think and it sounds reasonable to me. There will be more steel players in Western Countries and first world countries as well. There might be 10 steel players in the entire continent of Africa for example.

I was born and raised in Hawai'i, and it's rare to see a steel player, even in Hawai'i. The first steel player I ever saw in Hawai'i was during college. Jeff Au Hoy walked into Dan's Guitars (a guitar shop in Honolulu) with his steel and tried out some amps. Then I never saw one again, despite performing music a lot in Hawai'i. Admittedly, I wasn't in the Hawaiian music scene at that time. Throughout my whole life including and after college, I never saw a steel guitar play live music in Hawai'i. Now that I'm in the scene, I know where to go and the active individuals. But a regular common man Hawai'i local, most likely would hardly ever come across someone playing steel.

So for me, I think 30,000 worldwide steel players sounds about right.

And as Fred just pointed out, only 14 make their living playing steel. HAHA.

Even the great Jerry Byrd has had to paint houses and do odd jobs from time to time. Hawai'i has always been a tough place to make a living.

[Fred Treece]

Even the great Jerry Byrd has had to paint houses and do odd jobs from time to time. Hawai'i has always been a tough place to make a living.

Also, imagine Lloyd Green selling shoes, which he did. Nashville is very tough too.

[Terry VunCannon]

I did a deep dive into this in 2023 for a post on the Lap Steel Lunatics page I admin, and came up with much the same from studying world population, economic posts, & census studies worldwide.
There are over 700 million guitar players in the world, and maybe a little less than 30 thousand lap steel players worldwide.

[Michael Kiese]

I did a deep dive into this in 2023 for a post on the Lap Steel Lunatics page I admin, and came up with much the same from studying world population, economic posts, & census studies worldwide.
There are over 700 million guitar players in the world, and maybe a little less than 30 thousand lap steel players worldwide.

Sounds about right. Glad to hear you got similar findings. Took me about 5 mins between Grok and ChatGPT. lol.

Funny meme!

At the end of the day, all that matters is that we enjoy what we do. Steel is just fun, and many of these instruments are so old that they have stories, and they’d passed between many hands. If only we could hear all the music that was made with them throughout their lives.

[David DeLoach]

Now I can boast that I'm ranked in the top 30,000 lap steel players worldwide. May have to add that to my LinkedIn profile!

[Bill McCloskey]

That is nothing. When I played Eharp I was one of the top 5 Eharpers on the world. I only counted 4 others.

[Bill McCloskey]

I think I much more productive conversation might be:

1. how many play D10 vs S10
2. How many play Universal vs E9
3. How many play C6
4. How many non pedalers vs peddlers.
5. how many D10 players never touch the back neck
6. How many acoustic vs electric non pedalers.

[Glenn Wilde]

Who's driving up the prices on steel guitars, dangitt!!!
I still need a Tricone and a Fry pan........sheesh

[Fred Treece]

There are over 700 million guitar players in the world

There were over 699 million liars in that survey.

[Brooks Montgomery]

I asked Chat GPT how accurate it is in regards to answering questions about steel guitar, and one answer was:

“Potential for Hallucinations: ChatGPT may generate plausible-sounding but incorrect or fabricated information, a phenomenon known as “hallucination.” For instance, it might invent details about specific steel guitar models or players that do not exist.”

Purple Haze ……..

[Mark Evans]

I think I much more productive conversation might be:

6. How many acoustic vs electric non pedalers.

I prefer a bike without a battery
(However, I do dig a string-thru non-pedal)

[Michael Kiese]

That is nothing. When I played Eharp I was one of the top 5 Eharpers on the world. I only counted 4 others.

[Michael Kiese]

Who's driving up the prices on steel guitars, dangitt!!!
I still need a Tricone and a Fry pan........sheesh

Dude, professional resellers. They drive up the prices because they have incentive to do so. They make a career of tracking estate sales, and storage container auctions throughout the country, and buy up items for CHEAP, then they put 'em up on eBay, Reverb, and Craigslist. They might end up reselling items for 2x-3x what they got it for.

Basically individual collectors hoard their collections until they die. By the time it reaches Reverb, the prices are sky high. Most of the stuff on eBay, Craiglist, and Reverb are that kind of stuff.

Most it comes from estate sales and storage container auctions. People stop paying their storage container fees, or they die, and they have storage containers full of stuff, and that gets auctioned off, and people who win those auctions can get lucky and find lots of items to resell.

I got a couple of my steels off an online estate sale in Oregon. Some dude kicked the bucket and had over 50 highly collectable steel guitars. I bought a pristine first-run 8 string Bakelite with the stainless steel bridge, and my Rickenbacher ACE, which I treasure.

You can get deals if you're willing to wait and time it right. I got my A25 Frypan this past December 2024 for $3,000 including shipping on Reverb. The timing was right. The owner died, the daughter was clearing out the estate and wanted money to spend for Christmas. Nobody was buying in December, so they kept lowering the price. I made my offer and they accepted it.

Bobby Ingano tripped out when I told him, "Ho Brah! That's like 1990 prices!!! You're BLESSED Braddah!" lol.

At the end of the day, the price of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it.

People kick the bucket all the time. You just gotta situate yourself to be able to scoop something up when it comes your way.

I just got a heck of a deal on the TRIO of 1937 Epiphone Electars that I posted about. I couldn't pass it up.

[Glenn Wilde]

Who's driving up the prices on steel guitars, dangitt!!!
I still need a Tricone and a Fry pan........sheesh

Dude, professional resellers. They drive up the prices because they have incentive to do so. They make a career of tracking estate sales, and storage container auctions throughout the country, and buy up items for CHEAP, then they put 'em up on eBay, Reverb, and Craigslist. They might end up reselling items for 2x-3x what they got it for.

Basically individual collectors hoard their collections until they die. By the time it reaches Reverb, the prices are sky high. Most of the stuff on eBay, Craiglist, and Reverb are that kind of stuff.

Most it comes from estate sales and storage container auctions. People stop paying their storage container fees, or they die, and they have storage containers full of stuff, and that gets auctioned off, and people who win those auctions can get lucky and find lots of items to resell.

I got a couple of my steels off an online estate sale in Oregon. Some dude kicked the bucket and had over 50 highly collectable steel guitars. I bought a pristine first-run 8 string Bakelite with the stainless steel bridge, and my Rickenbacher ACE, which I treasure.

You can get deals if you're willing to wait and time it right. I got my A25 Frypan this past December 2024 for $3,000 including shipping on Reverb. The timing was right. The owner died, the daughter was clearing out the estate and wanted money to spend for Christmas. Nobody was buying in December, so they kept lowering the price. I made my offer and they accepted it.

Bobby Ingano tripped out when I told him, "Ho Brah! That's like 1990 prices!!! You're BLESSED Braddah!" lol.

At the end of the day, the price of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it.

People kick the bucket all the time. You just gotta situate yourself to be able to scoop something up when it comes your way.

I just got a heck of a deal on the TRIO of 1937 Epiphone Electars that I posted about. I couldn't pass it up.

Yes, it was a little tongue in cheek, I've also been blessed recently with a fine old Rick, a '36 B6, and if all goes well a National Tricone soon
I can't complain at all, they are getting very expensive though, but it's all relative I suppose.

[Michael Kiese]

Yes, it was a little tongue in cheek, I've also been blessed recently with a fine old Rick, a '36 B6, and if all goes well a National Tricone soon
I can't complain at all, they are getting very expensive though, but it's all relative I suppose.

Keep the faith! I'm sure you'll get your prized Tricone, and the deal will come out of nowhere.

I had given up on ever owning a frypan. I just refuse to spend that $5K+ on an instrument.

I never thought I'd own a real frypan, much less the A25 I have. A22's are rare, but I wanted the long scale which is even rarer still.

It just kinda happened, and on Reverb no less. December 10th. 2 weeks from Christmas. It was listed about 2 weeks before I bought it. I guess the seller wanted money to buy Christmas gifts. The price started at $6K and it just kept dropping. I made an offer for $3K including shipping. They accepted and that's that.

I think the key is to have money when a lot people don't have money. That's when the deals start to pop up.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw the price dropping on Reverb. But not a lot of people have extra cash around the Christmas season.

Everybody had money during Covid, so prices of everything sky rocketed. But nowadays things sit a lot longer on Reverb and eBay, so prices are coming down.

So you never know...that Tricone of yours could be right around the corner.

Congrats on the 1936 Bakelite. I love the prewar bakelites with the string through body design. I had a couple Bakelites before my Frypan.

When I got my A25, Bobby Ingano told me "Hey Brah, before you could only bake. But now you can FRY!" lol.

[Glenn Wilde]

I love that Bobby quote , I've been eyeing that model 59 on Reverb, it's a great deal and one of those was my first steel, but I'm really trying to make this Tricone deal happen. That's a great score on that Pan, I've never even seen a long scale in the flesh, is it hard to get used to, going from a Bakelite?

[Michael Kiese]

I love that Bobby quote , I've been eyeing that model 59 on Reverb, it's a great deal and one of those was my first steel, but I'm really trying to make this Tricone deal happen. That's a great score on that Pan, I've never even seen a long scale in the flesh, is it hard to get used to, going from a Bakelite?

Hey Glenn,

Not hard at all going from Short scale to long scale. When you switch back and forth, you settle in after 5 mins of playing.

It's kinda like going from a steel string acoustic to nylon string acoustic. Yes it's different, but you get used to it. The very first time you play it, it feels foreign. If you can just bear through it for 5-10 mins, your body mechanics somehow just naturally adjust.

Can't help it with these old steels. They're all a bit quirky and different. It just comes with the territory, and part of the fun. I also have a 1955 Q8 Fender Stringmaster, which is long scale, and the string spacing on Fenders is closer than the string spacing on Rickenbachers. So I was already used to longscale before I got my A25.

Also, if you ever get a 7 or 8 string Bakelite, the string spacing gets REALLY small. Back then, Rickenbacher just used the same bodies and put 7 and 8 string horsehoe bobbins in them. So the string spacing naturally got closer.

I didn't particularly like the close spacing of my 8 string Bakelite. The strings are about as close as physically possible, while still being playable. It did sound killer good.

Whatever you play on a lot is what you're used to at the moment. I used to gig a lot with a Nylon String Godin. Then when I went back to regular guitar, THAT felt foreign. lol.

Model 59's are good steels. My Rickenbacher ACE is my main gigging steel. It's my favorite. My buddy from Hawai'i came to visit, and we went shopping for steel guitars, and a shop had an old Model 59 in the window. I had my ACE with me and we compared the 2. I thought the 59 sounded every bit as good. My buddy scooped it up.

If you can get any old horseshoe Rickenbacher from $500-$600 (especially including shipping), then I think that is a good deal these days. All that likely must be done is re-magnetizing the magnets and maybe spray some DeOxit in the pots. Worst case is change out the pots. Then they sound killer again.

Re-magging is easy, if you know how to do it. Rick Aiello recently posted a YouTube video showing how to do it.

Good luck on your Tricone deal! Hope you get it! Life is short, so you may as well get the things you want that will make you happy and enjoy them!