older 3x2 push release having issues with C pedal and sticky knee lever

[Scott Morgan]

Hi, I recently traded for an interesting older pull release steel and I need some advice making some adjustments on the C pedal 4th string raise and a knee lever that’s sticking. It’s a late 60s capri model e9 s10 3x2 and looks identical to the early msa mini pro. It sounds great and looks like it was originally a 3x1, then someone added a 2nd knee lever to raise strings 4,8 & 2 a ½ step. The E lever drops the 8th string and 2nd string a ½ step. I am a novice at the inner workings of a steel and adjusting the undercarriage but I am learning fast. I did learn the proper tuning for a push release by tuning the pedals with the head tuners and their corresponding open strings using the cap screws at the changers. The knee levers seem to tune underneath with screw stops.

The first issue is the C pedal’s 4th string is not able to reach F# and is a few cents flat. When I tune it the proper way with the C pedal down to F# the open E is sharp and unable to lower it and the cap screw at the changer released all the way. That 4th strings finger seems to float or is being held up by a pull rod collar. Everything else is in tune and working including the AB pedals and the C pedals 5th string raise. I am not sure if I should be adjusting any collars on that 4th string pull rod or C pedal bell crank? That 4th string also has a F knee pull rod on the lower changer fingers I could also play with.

The 2nd issue is the Knee levers seem to be sticking. The 8th string E lever lowers fine and returns but when I use the F lever it sticks and requires me to use the E lever to lower the string and it returns to pitch. At first I thought it was the F lever making it stick but it could also be the E lever sticking and I just tuned to its sticking point.

[Mark Perrodin]

would you post a photo of the entire guitar? i am not familiar with this brand. thank you.

[Scott Morgan]

Here are some better pics from the guy I got the steel from in this thread. It's a Capri built by Al Collins and looks similar to the msa mini pro's he was building back then.

viewtopic.php?p=3244645&hilit=capri#p3244645

[Mike DiAlesandro]

That is not a push/pulll, It is a pull/release.

[Ian Worley]

What Mike said, it's a pull-release, but the tuning works the same. It sounds like your string 4 problem is that you simply need more slack on the F# raise. This is the most common tuning issue on pull-release and push-pull guitars. The raise rod is preventing the finger from lowering beyond a certain point. The longest raise must be set with enough "slack" on the pull rod to allow it to release all the way to the lowest note on that string. Just loosen the little clamping swivel on the C pedal string 4, give the rod a little more slack, and since you have no lower on 4, re-tune the open note using the screw on the tailpiece.You may need to back off the stop screw on the C pedal a little to give it more range of motion. This is how these typically get mis-adjusted, when someone who doesn't understand the mechanism tries to "tighten things up" and inadvertently F's things up instead. The string 8 problem is hard to diagnose with seeing it in motion, but it does look like in the pics that your string 8 finger could be rubbing against the string 7 finger, which could be a source for the sort of problem you described.

[Scott Morgan]

Thanks for the info guys on the pull release. That makes sense now with the C pedal. When I originally got this last week the ab pedal was perfect but the C pedal only raised the 4th string a half step so I adjusted the pedal screw stop underneath and I was able to tune it closer to F# but ran out of room on the changer to tune the open E. The E knee lever was really messed up when I got it but I was able to set the screw stop to get it in tune and the 8th string and 2nd string lower perfectly down a 1/2 step. The F lever was pulling over a whole step and I was able to get it close to a 1/2 step but it would get stuck returning back so I will investigate to see if anything is catching.

[Scott Morgan]

Thanks again everyone I ended up fixing everything and it is sounding great now. The C pedal fixed itself (sort of) once I applied the peterson pedal steel offsets which has the F# raise fairly flat giving me just enough wiggle room at the bridge cap screw to tune the 4th string E. The knee levers took a lot more tinkering underneath to stop the stuck lever. I noticed the F lever raises were not in sync so I had to adjust the rod barrels. Then I ended up needing to add more tension from the spring on the 8th string which finally fixed the stuck knee lever and it finally returned to E on the raise & pull. I also noticed the F knee lever were not quite raising at the same pitch so i had to tinker with barrel rod position several times before i finally got the 4th & 8th string raise to match.