Tonex in an amp

[Barry Yasika]

I've read that the Tones amp modeler works very well. When guys capture amps they are using the say it's very close but there are subtle differences between the modeler and the real thing. From what I was able to digest the Tonex is simply an interface between the guitar and PC type recording. Seems you need a step up preamp if you want to use this machine with a a guitar amp. Apparently the Tonex output signal isn't really what a guitar amp wants to see. I saw the preamp Tonex makes to bring up the input signal to a guitar, it's another couple hundred bucks. Are you people using the tTnex straight into the board with no amp or using some kind of powered speaker monitor? Does the smaller Tonex do the same thing is the bigger one? Why are people using them? You wouldn't capture your own steel amp only to use the Tonex through the same amp would you? Finally if you all are using a guitar amp, how do you set your eq's to get the most accurate representation of the "Captured" amp? If your satisfied with the rig you use, is there any real advantage in the Tonex? Thanks.

[Larry Dering]

I have only tried my Tonex into a Quilter micropro mach 2 which has a line in 2nd channel input. With that it has a gain and tone controls only. I set the tone just shy of 12 o'clock and gain as needed. It sounds very good using the Fender Twin settings. I'm not trying to model any particular amp so this may not answer your question. I'm only using the full size tonex pedal and no other interface.

[Tim Rose]

" Apparently the Tonex output signal isn't really what a guitar amp wants to see. "

Just got the Tonexone.. loud live situation into Fryette PS100.... having this ^ problem as well. Cant get enough volume with clean patches. Have to turn up the gain in the (capture) amp but that leads to distortion. Having problem with the "input" of the tonex as well. Adjust the global input down to eliminate distortion and your left with very low output volume. Dont think its made for what i'm trying to use it for - a preamp.

[Larry Dering]

Tim I don't understand the difference in the tonex one and the larger unit. I have plenty of power as I'm using it. I run a passive volume pedal to a black box then to the Quilter line in. I got tons of volume.

[Jon Jaffe]

I use the TONEX One as a preamp most of the time and have worked through all the problems you mentioned. With a regular guitar amplifier(Milkman 50/50), I don't have any problems with the output of TONEX One. I set my input trim to about 9 o'clock with the micro knobs, so it barely turns green when I strike the strings hard. This has solved the problems with distortion. With the FR12, The TONEX One is weak on its input to the amplifier. With a sound-reinforced gig, this isn't a problem, but with a stage mix, I have to use an MXR micro amp to boost its signal to the FR12.
I clip the TONEX One to the leg of my steel and power it with an iPhone backup battery. I can comfortably use four presets, which are Joe Rogers presets. The presets I use are a Fender Twin with reverb, a Fender Twin with reverb and delay, a Fender Twin with reverb and rotary, and a MatchBro with reverb.
I don't think the TONEX One reverb or delay matches the sound of a well-designed pedal in a quiet room, but in a club with or without sound reinforcement, it sounds similar, with the added benefit of not having all the pedals. Plus, there is an awfully steep learning curve with the TONEX One.

[Barry Yasika]

This is a picture of the Tonex Amplifier and Capture Interface I understand to be what's used if your sending the output into and amplifier. Is anyone using this? They cost about 250$ give or take. That would bring the cost of using one up to about 650 to 700 bucks. I've been going back and for as to whether its worth it or not. More curious than anything

[Jon Jaffe]

The picture is of the TONEX Capture. "The perfect all-in-one companion for Tone Modeling and reamplification" It is for capturing amplifier presets, and with mic attached capturing the sound of a cabinet. It is not for performance. See the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkybNQyPK8

[Larry Dering]

Barry, I think you need to watch some of the guitar hackers on YouTube use the pedal. What you show is a capture device for your own attempt to model your rig for later use with just the pedal. Does that make sense to you? It's not necessary for just using the Tonex one or the bigger Tonex pedal. I don't have the capture device. To be honest I took my pedal out of the box, plugged into my Quilter line in and dialed the tonex to a Fender Twin reverb, tweaked reverb and delay and was playing in a few minutes. I haven't read all the manual or updated the software yet.

[Barry Yasika]

Yeah I did watch the video over again and understand what the compare box does a little better now. I'm not gonna mess with the Tonex since I like the sound I have now with the gear I already have. I think I read about stuff guys are using on the forum and get curious about whether or not it would be fun and if it would improve my sound. Seems like no matter what I try I keep going back to what has worked and what does work for me. Anyway that guys for clearing that up a little better for me!!

[Larry Dering]

Barry, I go back and forth on some of this gear. Truthfully at 75 I probably won't play out much anyway. If you have a good sound with your current equipment then stay with it. I accumulated a pile of unnecessary stuff in the chase for better tone. It's a rabbit hole.

[Barry Yasika]

Larry, I do the same thing. I can’t tell you how many amps and pedals I’ve gone through on both guitar and steel. I have two really great steels and 15 - 20 guitars. It’s come down to playing an MSA through Quilter using the onboard reverb very subtle and with guitar it’s my favorite Strat or Les Paul custom through an old Mark IV Mesa Boogie. No pedals just add a bit of gain and no reverb. I use to have a wetter sound on steel than I do now but listening to Mike Johnson has turned me away from all that. I love that guys tone, his intonation is flawless. I’m 70 now and still gig a little in a blues band and a kind of Jimmy Buffet/country/light rock. Gotta take my Ibuprofen before gigs these days cause of my arthritis. Take it easy man and again thanks for steering my in the right direction regarding the Tonex.

[Larry Dering]

You bet. And I have seen Mike Johnson live a couple times using just his Emmons and a Nashville 400 amp. Tone to the bone, what a player.
I play guitar as well and love my Telecasters and Archtop guitars.

[Alex Cattaneo]

I don’t know if this will help, but I use the TONEX and I really like it.

Few things that might help some of you having trouble:

The pedal ships with the input trim set fairly high. I set mine at 0 to make sure I have enough headroom.

The TONEX is supposed to replace your amp, so using it with an amp is ill advised. It would be better to use with something with a flat response, like a monitor. Many guys using amp modelers (Fractal, Tonex, Quad Cortex, Kemper) use FRFR speakers, such as the new Tonex cab, which is a powered monitor designed to work with the Tonex pedal.

That being said, you could use it with a regular amp IF you can bypass the preamp section. For example, by plugging into the return of the fx loop on a Quilter or the power amp input on a Katana. Keep in mind that if the Tonex will play into a guitar speaker, you need to turn off the cab simulation in the Tonex pedal.

In other words, TONEX takes a snapshot of a particular amp setting and a particular speaker. It simulates the preamp and the cabinet (and some models also include a pedal). So all you need is a power amp and a full range speaker. But if you want to use a guitar cabinet instead, just turn off the cab sim in the Tonex.

On Youtube, there is a guy named Jason Sudites who did a bunch of excellent videos to explain how everything Tonex works. The software is a bit weird, but his videos helped me figure it out. If you have any questions, I’ll be happy to help if I can.

To answer the OP, the answer is YES, you can use the TONEX with an amp as long as

a) you bypass the amp’s preamp section and
b) you turn off the cab sim in the Tonex pedal.

[Barry Yasika]

Thanks Alex, I've watched a lot of youtubers talk about the Tonex Modeler. My confusion was, what sense did it make to take cloned amplifier sounds and plug them into another amp. Common sense would dictate you'd get different sounds but not the authenticity that was intended. The second dilemma was how the output is sent to the amplifier input. I now have a much better understanding about those two issues. I guess if I was going to use a modeler it would probably be for recording but most recording software has plug in modeled amp sounds so I doubt it would be cost effective to buy the hardware. Playing in a live situation with different sounds can be hit or miss, at least for me. What sounds great in your practice area will more than likely sound different once it's turned up and has at least bass and drums underneath it. Like everything else there's always pro's and con's that you have to weigh in between wants and needs.

So as interesting as it sounds I suppose I can live without it. At least for now....

[Jon Jaffe]

Barry, it's true that the sound in the practice area is not equivalent to what you get live. But I don't feed the TONEX into one of my combo amplifiers. I feed it to a Fender FR12 powered speaker. It's voiced for an instrument, and a powered speaker, in general, is voiced for vocals. I use two distinct preamps with the FR12—the Quilter Direct Amp and Superblock, or the TONEX. By the way, the Quilters sound fantastic, but they are larger, and they only have reverb and distortion. I do not know if the modeled presets sound exactly like the amps they were modeled after. But, the package is small and very convenient to adjust on stage.

[Alex Cattaneo]

Barry, you are right, it doesn't really make sense to use a Tonex if you already have an amp that meets your needs. For me, the Tonex is useful for three main purposes:

- practicing with headphones
- recording
- playing with in-ear monitors; in several work scenarios, amps are frowned upon and amp modelers are the perfect solution for such situations. And I love not having to carry amps and cabs to a gig!

When Tonex recently added fx to the pedal (modulation and delay), it really became an incredible Swiss army knife of a device. I really like the self contained aspect of it.

Also, in my case, I play a lot of different instruments and many genres of music. So having access to all these very different amp tones is quite useful. I can play pop, rock, country or jazz gigs with this tiny box, so that makes my life easier.

There is also a certain consistency in having the same tones for recording, gigs and personal practice. Tube amps have a certain sweet spot in terms of volume, and that's often too loud. With the Tonex, it's the same tone, no matter the volume. So another advantage.

That being said, I'm not a fan of needing a computer to edit sounds... but IK is supposedly releasing a new editor for the Tonex very soon...

[Ron Hogan]

This will help a lot with the knob setting controls and how to operate them.

https://youtu.be/wETOD3SEP6c?si=Knu661m8_BLxFDht

[Tim Rose]

So..im discovering that you can turn up the volume AND the gain on the virtual amp and not cause more distortion. This has helped get the tonex up to volume for gigging.... lower the global input gain on the tonex and dime the virtual amp...... worked on the handful of amps ive tried anyway

[Joe Rogers]

Barry, I'm going to try to answer your questions one by one. You write:

>>When guys capture amps they are using the say it's very close but there are subtle differences between the modeler and the real thing. <<

When modeled correctly, it is almost indistinguishable from the original amp. But there's an art and a science to getting it right...and it's not always an easy process.

>>From what I was able to digest the Tonex is simply an interface between the guitar and PC type recording. <<<

Tonex started out as a software package alone, where you could model your amps into the computer. They later came out with a pedal where you can take that software model of your amp, export it into a pedal, & bring the pedal to the gig with you. The Tonex Pedal itself is able to play a live gig AND it will also serve as an interface whereby you can hook up to a computer via USB and record with those same amp models.

>>>Seems you need a step up preamp if you want to use this machine with a a guitar amp. <<<

Any combo amp consists of 3 elements: A preamp, a power amp, and a cabinet housing a speaker. Think of the Tonex as your preamp...because it IS your preamp. You will need to provide the other 2 components. I don't know what you mean by a "step up preamp". You need a power amp to get sound out of your speaker, but the Tonex does not need to be stepped up.

>>>Apparently the Tonex output signal isn't really what a guitar amp wants to see. I saw the preamp Tonex makes to bring up the input signal to a guitar, it's another couple hundred bucks. <<<

If going into the Power Amp Input of a Peavey amp, Telonics amp, or others, The "guitar amp" doesn't have any problem whatsoever with the signal. Other units such as the Quilter 202 can accept the input via the effects return. You will have to put a "null cable" (a 1/4" patch cable going nowhere) into the effects send jack. At that point the Quilter will shut off access to any front panel controls and run strictly off of the power amp. I am not sure what you are referring to when you mention a "preamp to bring the input signal to a guitar".

>>>Are you people using the Tonex straight into the board with no amp or using some kind of powered speaker monitor? Does the smaller Tonex do the same thing is the bigger one? Why are people using them? <<<

My FAQ document answers those questions in way more detail than what is necessary to post here. Contact me through PM, or preferably email and I will get a copy to you.

>>>You wouldn't capture your own steel amp only to use the Tonex through the same amp would you? <<<

Why not..?? If you play a Nashville 400, that is the only amp you will feel like lugging to a gig. If you model the same amp into a Tonex and plug into the power amp in, you still have your Nashville 400....but you also have a Fender Twin, a Sho-Bud Blackface, a Standel, a Randall Steelman 500, a Webb....the list is truly endless....

>>>Finally if you all are using a guitar amp, how do you set your eq's to get the most accurate representation of the "Captured" amp?<<<

The EQ is set in stone when you prepare to model (capture) the amp. You are basically taking a snapshot of your amp at that setting. Turning up the treble after the fact is like adding an EQ pedal to the signal and raising the treble on the pedal. It is NOT quite the same as turning up the treble on your amp. To do it completely right, you would need to get another capture with the treble raised on the amp. There ARE EQ knobs on the front of the Tonex pedal whereby you can make minute adjustments to your EQ at a gig. So you're not exactly set in stone, you CAN make changes at a gig.

>>>If your satisfied with the rig you use, is there any real advantage in the Tonex?<<<

If one amp serves your needs, there is no real advantage. But let me ask a question. Why would any guitar player will bring a Telecaster, Stratocaster, Les Paul, & Gibson ES 335 to a gig...?? Won't ONE guitar be able to play the gig....?? Of course it can, but the voice of the guitar you bring may not fit the genre 100%. An ES 335 will simply not sound like Brent Mason on a Telecaster. Guitar players have zero qualms about bringing multiple voiced guitars to a gig. It should not be difficult to understand why one wouldn't want to do the exact same thing with amplifiers. This new generation of modelers allow you to do just that.

One last thing, I have plans of attending the Dallas Steel Guitar Show whereby I can profile anyone's amp into the Neural DSP Quad/Nano Cortex pedals as well as the Tonex pedals. Bring your amp, set it the way you like it, and it will be set in stone for your gigs in a pedal that will fit in the palm of your hand. I charge $35 to profile your amp if it is an amp that I already have in my library. If it is an obscure amp that I don't have in my library (and you give me your permission to add it), I will model your amp for free, as well as give you 2 more free amp models.

Thanks...!!

Joe Rogers

[Barry Yasika]

Joe, very informative post. You seem to be the "go-to" man for Tonex on the forum. I'm sure other guys are doing what you do but your name is the one I see the guys talking about when it comes to in depth use of this modeler. I watched the video's you did and was surprised, even impressed with the diversity in sound between the different amps. You have a nice touch on your instrument as well. Anyway, something to think about. It's not so much the money, but bringing something else home on top of what's already here generates my hesitation. Thanks so much for the informed response. If you get an order from me for some of cloned amps, you'll know i caved.

Barry

[Ron Hogan]

Here is a YouTube that walks you through the new Editor software.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPJcr-1yQ8M&t=603s

[Ron Hogan]

On Steel I’m using a ToneX pedal amp modler. Milkman amp preset by Joe Rogers crafty mind.


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