need advice!.. tube preamp/effects unit for electric guitar

[Bob Carlucci]

I only play in church these days.. No steel at all just electric guitar playing 3 contemporary praise songs each week,, once in a while a song on acoustic guitar as well.. We have 2 female vocalists, electric piano,electric bass, drums [digital kit], acoustic guitar and me on electric .. The church just switched us over to in ear monitors, no more amps on stage.. I was using a Peavey Delta Blues tube amp with an old boss effects unit that has comp, distortion, D delay, chorus.. Now my guitar is run through the house mix, and all I hear is a sad "board sound" with a bit of delay.. No dynamics, NONE of the "touch sensitivity", none of the added punch when I dig in a little I have lived with for 55 + years of tube amps.. What can I do to get that "feel" back when using in ear monitors?.. I was thinking of some sort of multi effects unit with perhaps a 12ax7 in the preamp??.. I am totally dependent on tech and technique from 1970, and this is all new to me, Once they took the amp with its attendant mic off stage,I was lost... Any suggestions as to an affordable unit or device to get some analog feel going while negotiating an ever more digital musical landscape? Something small, not loaded with stuff I'll never use... Affordable would be great, not looking for anything complex or expensive if I can help it.. I just have NO idea whats out there, or even where to begin looking.... any help would be well appreciated.... bob

[Jack Hanson]

For me, it would be preferable to change churches than to change a setup that I've been using and grown fond of and accustomed to for over a half century. Small tube amps are the bomb! You have my sympathy. There are plenty here who are up on all the digital stuff. You're sure to receive plenty of expert and knowledgeable advice. Good luck!

[Rich Ertelt]

Suhr IR. You can plug the out of the amp that normally goes to the speaker, into it instead, and then to the board.

It has a really good simulation of a real speaker load, so the amp acts naturally.

It has 15 or 20 speaker IRs (simulators) so you can pick your speaker. Or you can load your own (not hard, lots of folks would know how to do it if it isn't something you can do).

It has a balanced out, 1/4", so you can go right to the board.

It is designed to use your tube amp, silently, in recording. I have used it in the studio. It wasn't quite as good as really good mics on the speaker in a great sounding room, but as the engineer said "Plenty good enough to be usable". We kept it for the rhythm tracks, and only used mics on solo overdubs.

[Doug Taylor]

I use a Line 6 HX Stomp when I play bass at church but have not used it with guitar or steel other than at home. The guitar player uses a Tonex on his guitar and it sounds great through the house!

[Steve Lipsey]

A Milkman "The Amp" will give you a real Fender tube preamp, +reverb+cab sim, and has an XLR out for the house....and elsewhere, you can plug in a speaker ...

I use the 100 watt version, with a "boost" function, leaving on the boost full time at a very low level gives a nice mid boost...the 50 watt version has a tremolo function instead, if you prefer that...

I also was a tube amp guy for 60 years, just switched from Milkman all-tube to Milkman preamp tube + solid state power amp, and I'm actually loving it. it was rare that I could really drive the power amp into full tube saturation anyway, so there isn't much difference...

Extensive A/B tests against the Milkman Pedal Steel Mini all-tube amp maybe show a tiny bit more "tubiness" in the all tube amp., ,but audible only in a quiet room with nothing else happening...and now the amp weighs only 2.5 lbs....

[Stephen Cowell]

For me, you're in modeler territory now... you'll need to emulate the pre, the main, the speaker, even the mic'ing. Isn't Kemper the de-facto standard? Or just play through a Rockman, of course.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Suhr IR. You can plug the out of the amp that normally goes to the speaker, into it instead, and then to the board.

It has a really good simulation of a real speaker load, so the amp acts naturally.

It has 15 or 20 speaker IRs (simulators) so you can pick your speaker. Or you can load your own (not hard, lots of folks would know how to do it if it isn't something you can do).

It has a balanced out, 1/4", so you can go right to the board.

It is designed to use your tube amp, silently, in recording. I have used it in the studio. It wasn't quite as good as really good mics on the speaker in a great sounding room, but as the engineer said "Plenty good enough to be usable". We kept it for the rhythm tracks, and only used mics on solo overdubs.

I use a Suhr load box also. The one with the ir feature. For in ear church gigs the suhr will let you use your amp rig. It just gets its signal from the speaker out of the amp. Even with the exact same dynamics, feel and sound of your amp it still will be a different experience playing with in ears. I've gotten so I like it after a bit of time. You can keep the volume at reasonable levels and make your own mix.
Look into "load boxes" if you want to use your amp. There are also plenty of modeling amps that are pretty amazing. I mostly use a Sarno V8 for in ears gigs if I don't want to carry an amp around.

[Rich Ertelt]

. I mostly use a Sarno V8 for in ears gigs if I don't want to carry an amp around.

I have a V8. I actually like it going direct, didn't like it at all as a pre amp for gigs. I actually got the Sarno twin pre-amp - SMS Classic - a week ago. I've done 2 gigs with different bands and a recording session on it last week, and got compliments about the tone on all of them!

I was thinking about suggesting a tube pre, but then you get into needing some type of speaker sim. Even the V8, when I recorded with it, I thought it seriously needed a good speaker sim to sound right. The V8 would also need FX. The SMS Does have reverb, but I actually use a Wet reverb with it, which sounds a lot better to my ear.

Modeling would be easier. I have never used one of the high end modelers, but all the lower end hw ones and all the sw ones I have tried leave me cold. I haven't tried the ToneX which a lot of guys here like, that might be an option.

[Bob Carlucci]

yeah some of the stuff mentioned is more than I want to spend... by a lot!..

I am thinking about a used Vox Tonelab... Lots of stuff in it.. including a 12ax7 in the pre and they run pretty cheap in the used market from what i have seen... I use no distortion or "amp models" to speak of, just quietly backing the vocals with first position chords and maybe a glissando strategically placed here and there.. I just want some of the feel that was lost, and hopefully a tube pre may help a bit.. I put an offer in on one on Reverb, we'll see what happens.. If not, I'll try daisy chaining a bunch of stuff together from all the stuff I already have here, and see what happens.. Not that easy to get a guitar sound you can "feel" while playing when you are sending millivolts into someone's control board and then he/she decides what you are supposed to sound like, and all you get to work with are millivolts back through a couple of ear buds....

[Fred Treece]

People are raving about the Tonex One, $150 at Sweetwater. Fits in your guitar case. It might take an afternoon’s worth of learning curve time to find something close to the sound you’re looking for on it.

[Bob Carlucci]

People are raving about the Tonex One, $150 at Sweetwater. Fits in your guitar case. It might take an afternoon’s worth of learning curve time to find something close to the sound you’re looking for on it.

I hear its actually pretty good,,, might do some more research.. Price is right too... No tube in those but I am not convinced those single 12 ax7 "tube preamp" effects units are really any warmer than a modern digital unit anyway...

[Dave Grafe]

Check out Quilter's SuperBlock US, three Fender tone stacks to choose from ('59 tweed, '61 blonde, '65 BF), speaker emulation, an effects loop and XLR line out for the PA. Sounds like a Fender, knobs work like a Fender, it ships with a 24vdc PSU that provides power for a 25w amp section but the XLR line out alone runs on 9vdc so it can live on your pedal board power distro. Easy peasey!

[Stew Crookes]

Check out Quilter's SuperBlock US, three Fender tone stacks to choose from ('59 tweed, '61 blonde, '65 BF), speaker emulation, an effects loop and XLR line out for the PA. Sounds like a Fender, knobs work like a Fender, it ships with a 24vdc PSU that provides power for a 25w amp section but the XLR line out alone runs on 9vdc so it can live on your pedal board power distro. Easy peasey!

I second this - I use a SuperBlock direct out to FOH (and for recording) all the time and couldn't be happier with how it sounds. You've got an existing multi effect box that you already know your way around, and the SuperBlock controls are just the same you'd find on any other amp, so there's nothing to learn in order to use it

[Troy Engle]

With most of the amp sim pedals these days, you wouldn't really need a real tube in there, unless you really wanted it. There's a ton of amp simulator pedals, but I'd recommend the Strymon Iridium or the Tech 21 Blonde pedal. Both don't require an app or a computer to use, though you can change things on the Iridium with the app. The Tech 21 is all analog and has a very warm direct sound. The Tech 21 Flyrig is also cool, as it has several effects as well as the Blonde in it.

[Patrick Huey]

Bob;
For an inexpensive “tube” option (I know exactly what you mean regarding that tube pick sensitivity, reaction to picking aggression, etc, FEEL AND RESPONSE… one reason I hate playing, blues, rock, etc. through digital and solid state is the flat uniform gain reaction) I got a TC Electronics Tube Pilot pedal…it’s their rendition of the old Butler tube overdrive pedal…it has a single 12ax7, a gain knob and a volume knob….thats it. I have found it running that last on mine board especially into solid state amps, with the volume set to unity with the amp adjust the gain to very very low and it will give my solid state Randall and Peavey heads and digital stuff that tube feel and string/picking reactive responsiveness…. The little jump in gain when you pick harder etc. without adding a lot of preamp tube distortion. It takes a little bit of patience and some tweaking to get the balances between it and the amp correct. I also swapped the 12ax7 out of mine for a JAN GE 5751…that tube has more gain than the 12at7 but around 30mU less than the 12ax7… that pedal also has a little internal trim pot next to the tube that adjusts plate voltage to the tube… I dialed mine back, just a teeny tiny bit. You can get these pedal views all the time for 30 or $40 Musician friend Guitar center. Etc

[Bob Carlucci]

I think I am going to buy a used Vox Tonelab.. They have a 12AX7 in the chain [somewhere] and from all I have read online its a solid unit that sounds good and will warm up a dry signal convincingly... They are "old school" compared to todays stuff, but the price is right, they are built well, and the reviews i have read that span 20+ years are all overwhelming positive.. NONE of this digital stuff sounds like a tube amp to my ears, and I am not in a frame of mind to blow $500 + for a digital box with a bunch of pre amps, models, digital effects I'll never use... Been there done that, and every one of them has been dispatched at a big loss over time.. The Tonelab will probably do what i need it t do fairly cheaply, although I doubt that the ""glowing 12 AX7"" really has very much to do with any tone shaping.. bob