Tips for dobro open G player moving to C6 lap steel

[Joe Buczek]

Folks,

I'm pretty comfortable on the open G dobro these days and I just acquired a lap steel for learning C6 western swing. I'd love to hear from anyone who has made this transition who can share tips for adapting to C6.

Thanks!
Joe

[Michael Miller]

Long time open G dobro player here. I was never able to grasp c6 in a good way but found A6 to be comfortable on lap steel. The top three strings are the same interval as the open g...just moved up two frets. So a lot of tunes translate.

[Joe Buczek]

Long time open G dobro player here. I was never able to grasp c6 in a good way but found A6 to be comfortable on lap steel. The top three strings are the same interval as the open g...just moved up two frets. So a lot of tunes translate.

Thanks, Michael. Good insight!

[Steven Wilson]

Joe - It's a work in progress for me, but I am finding C6 to be pretty straightforward. Thinking in terms of numbers, strings on the dobro are tuned to 135135 (GBDGBD)in 2 octaves as you know. With C6 (6 strings) it's 135613 (CEGACE); down a step and a half for A6. Anything you play on the dobro can be played on those 1,3,5 strings, and on the 6,1,3 strings you can get 3 notes of a relative minor. I have an 8 string that I really like (61356135). Coming from a dobro background, it makes sense because you have again 2 octaves of the same thing and you can play anything you would play on the dobro on those top 3 strings plus a lot of western swing and Hawiian sounds using the 6. Troy Brenningmeyer has good instructional material at his website that helped me. Steve

[Lee Rider]

I put a Hipshot Doubleshot on my GBDGBD dobro and, when disengaged, puts my tuning at G11 (GBDFAC) which, in my dobro-centric mind, is easier to understand and opens up many chordal possibilities. I have tuned my 6 string lap steel the same way at times, no issue with string gauges.

[Tony Oresteen]

Well, that depends on which A6 tuning you use. For 6 string A6 I use:

(L2H) A C# E F# A C#

Which is the same as C6 but down a step & a half.

For 8 String I use:

(L2H) F# A C# E F# A C# E

These are what Herb Remington/Cindy Cashdollar used for A6.

[Rich Arnold]

I did that.
I went from the DBGDBG to 8 string C6.
Then to A6.
I ended up tuning my inside neck to G6.
This is much like the dobro open G but with an E in the middle of the 2 triads and an E on the bottom.
It sounds like this...

https://youtu.be/sUlbu9wxdYQ?si=VIccmjtQw5VMmL8d

[Richard Alderson]

Is your lap steel 6 strings? or 8? I am not an expert or pro. I did make a modest transition once from 6 string open E and G dobro tunings to 8 string C6th steel. I think only the 8 string configuration would really make C6th come alive. But it was a hard transition, and instead of being faster louder and with more sparkle and zest, it was slower, softer, and more mellow. A lot more half notes and volume swells, and not as many 8th notes and 16th notes, that's for sure. Very difficult transition in my case, but perhaps with your E9th experience, you'll be better poised than I was.

[Sebastian Müller]

Joining a Honky Tonk Band last year I did finally decide to learn C6 tuning because it is used quite heavily in the typical repertoire of that style.
The biggest difference to Open A (Like Dobro tuning only a whole step up) is that you have to get used to chord grips
in the right hand. C6 is really a Mix of a C Major tuning and A minor, but to be able to play these chords you have to avoid
certain strings. That was quite a learning curve, but if you played E9 pedal steel you should be very familiar with the concept of grips.
I prefer C6 with the E on top to A6 or C6 with the G on top, I also thought A6 would be the way to go because it has the 1 3 5 on
top but a 6th tuning is a very different beast anyway, so I picked C6 which sounds best to me, you can get close to the sound of a E tuning and C#minor which I both love.
On my Fender D8 Stringmaster I have one Neck in Open A which I detune to C#minor for certain songs and the other Neck is C6, really like that setup for now.

[Joe Buczek]

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far.

Since it came up, I should have mentioned that my lap steel is a 6 string instrument that I intend to tune to C6 for learning western swing and leveraging existing instruction materials. I might explore other tunings but am starting with C6.

I have been watching a lot of Troy Brenningmeyer on youtube. Good stuff, indeed.

[Sebastian Müller]

For a 6 string I think the standard C6 tuning with E on top is pretty ideal. With that tuning you can play most Hank Williams repertoire, for the one with Don Helms you have to play quite high up the neck but it is not too bad. Have fun on your Western Swing journey and don't forget to listen to Joaquin Murphey !

[Michael B Scott]

Wish you all the best…you wont believe what this does for minors…
From dobro open G to electric C6 found I needed (still need) to:
>really focus on playing with lighter touch (turn amp UP..you HAVE to play lighter)
>clean up my technique (dobro in bg setting - a lot of faults were masked)
>drill with “grips” for the 3 major inversions and 3 minor at a straight bar position to get the new muscle memory working
>go back to my bullet bar for easier/fluid slants - fwd, backwd & split nose
>learn the scales at the primary (C=1 or 12) and secondary pockets (C= 5 to 7)
>learn to play my favorite open G tune/s in C6 - forced the conflict with my muscle memory right out into the open
>finally…I went cold turkey…changed all laps to C6 and put the dobro in (A6 w same intervals)…So I HAD to learn the new fretboard
Ps. Taking Zoom lessons from Alan Akaka was the biggest step of all

[Robert Murphy]

I moved back and forth between Dobro G and C6 lap steel. I moved my Dobro to G6 and now it’s much easier to find chords and licks. CEGACE vs GBDEGB.

[Jack Hanson]

I'd love to hear from anyone who has made this transition who can share tips for adapting to C6.

As a tricone player in high-bass A tuning (standard Dobro G raised a full-step), I made the transition about twenty years ago. It's not as difficult as you may have been led to believe. Tips and advice? Obtain one of Doug Beaumier's excellent 6-string C6 books, and then practice, practice, practice!

[Brett Lanier]

The main difference for me is the type of bar and left hand technique, aside from right hand stuff Sebastian already covered. A round bar makes it possible to get three string slant chords while keeping the top two voices on the same fret (by using the curvature of the rounded end). You can play C6 lap steel with a dobro bar, but to get the super smooth vibrato and all the slants I’d consider trying a Jerry Byrd size bar, 5/8” diameter.

[Bill McCloskey]

The biggest hurdle for me is realizing that it is a completely different instrument. If you approach it like a dobro, you'll get frustrated. Everything about it is different : the bar, the approach, the attack, the fingering, the grips, going from a stevens bar to a bullet bar.

Once you realize that little of what you play on the dobro is going to carry over and you begin to approach it less going from dobro to lap steel and more "learning C6 as a new instrument" you'll start to progress.

[Chris Templeton]

Studying with Jerry Byrd, I found that his C6th has everything one needs for a E9 type approach. NOT just for Western swing. forward and reverse slants are often needed.
When I played 6 string dobro for Dan Hicks in a 4 piece band, I found everything I needed with the C6 tuning to get major chords, inversions.
I used dobro from the 30's that Gene Wooten at Sho~Bud had refinished.
Then, when I toured with Robert Randolph as his steel tech, the dobro became the bus guitar.
Because of Robert's aggressive playing stye, he destroyed the guitar and I to throw it away.
Jerry's technique for doing a reverse slants is to push the heel of the bar out with the thumb.
Here are some Jerry Byrd tips: https://www.steelc6th.com/jerry_byrd_knowledge.htm
Also, as most listeners like the hammer-ons of the standard dobro, but as a player, I try to avoid that beaten path.
I play my "Mosquito Hop" in C6th with a ""D" on top and use a variety of techniques:
https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.c ... squito-hop

[BJ Burbach]

I moved back and forth between Dobro G and C6 lap steel. I moved my Dobro to G6 and now it’s much easier to find chords and licks. CEGACE vs GBDEGB.

Tried this for awhile and it is a very nice G6, Thanks, Robert. Obvious tweak, but I never stumbled on it.
I"ll still keep a C6, too. won't lose that.
BJ