Finding a Fuzz pedal for PSG that cuts through a mix

[Rob Morrison]

Hi y'all, I started playing pedal steel in a very alternative/psych country band recently, where the other members are a bassist, drummer, and electric guitarist. They were previously playing with a synth player, so I'm trying cop some of the fat, sustain-y sounds their synth player got in their recordings. I've been using a Zvex Fuzzolo pedal for this so far, and in quieter moments I can hear the fuzz just fine and it's giving that nice cello-y sound in conjunction with volume swells. But I'm finding that when the band gets loud, the pedal steel is almost completely lost in the mix with the fuzz on. There aren't any tone controls on the Fuzzolo, and while it's always worked well for me on electric guitar, I can acknowledge that PSG has different frequencies, and this is a new band so the situation is different.

Anyone have recs for a different type of fuzz/distortion that can get me thick, sustained sounds without getting buried in the mix? My amp settings for clean are usually Treble around 7, Bass around 6, and Mids around 3 or 4 (typically a Fender amp).

[mtulbert]

Rob

What you may want to try is to add mids to your tone and then pull it back in the mix. This is a trick that I used alot when working in Nashville years ago. It may or may not work in your situation but you have nothing to lose.

regards,,

Mark T

[Chris Willingham]

I've got both the Sarno Earth Drive and Earthquaker Hoof on my board. Very different flavors of dirt, but both cut. The shift knob on the hoof makes it very steel-friendly. I've got both dirt pedals in a loop before the volume pedal, which keeps the level of distortion consistent vs responding to the vp. Running an envelope filter before the hoof is very cool too. Takes the quackyness out of the envelope filter, but kinda makes fuzz breathe and have some movement to it, if that makes any sense. Single note lines work best for me in that setup.

[Dave Stagner]

Boss Tone type fuzzes are classic for pedal steel. I have a JHS Plugin and it works well. Rat pedals are fuzz-like but cut through really well. I don't know about the Fuzzalo, but I find a lot of guitar fuzzes are just mush in a band setting - both too loud and not loud enough. (You couldn't pay me to use a Big Muff!)

Another thing that works really well is running fuzz into an overdrive to shape it and bring out the midrange. Tube Screamers are often used for this. I've long used the HAO Rumble Mod, but they're rare and long out of production. But the JHS 3 Overdrive is a Rumble Mod clone, and I'll bet it would work really well for that purpose.

[Karen Sarkisian]

if you are looking for a cello sound i highly recommend the Jam Rattler pedal for the fuzzy part into a strymon cloudburst. i have found nothing better.

[K Maul]

I like the BB Pre-amp by Xotic. It has controls for hi+lo end, has a fat earthy tone and isn’t ridiculous in price. Sometimes I run it with a compressor or another Xotic pedal, the AC Boost, in front. I usually go before the volume pedal with these, although I've experimented with the AC Boost on the other side of the volume pedal. It’s a whole different animal.

[Ian Worley]

...I usually go before the volume pedal with these...

This is probably more important than the specific model of overdrive unit you use. Overdrive pedals compress your signal. Placing the OD unit downstream of the volume pedal will not give you proportional output vs. no OD. Increasing the volume pedal boosts the input gain to the OD, causing more compression and OD. Unless you specifically want that effect, always put the OD before the VP, so the VP is controlling the the OD's output, not it's input. Boosting the mids on a Fender amp will help you cut through better in the mix. If you're using something like a Twin, try setting mids around 6-7 and treble around 3-4. Too much bass can muddy things, too. What sounds good when you're playing alone in a quiet room is not necessarily what will sound good in band setting. Everybody needs to stay in their lane, that's what separates the pros from the schmoes

[Rob Morrison]

Boss Tone type fuzzes are classic for pedal steel. I have a JHS Plugin and it works well. Rat pedals are fuzz-like but cut through really well. I don't know about the Fuzzalo, but I find a lot of guitar fuzzes are just mush in a band setting - both too loud and not loud enough. (You couldn't pay me to use a Big Muff!)

Another thing that works really well is running fuzz into an overdrive to shape it and bring out the midrange. Tube Screamers are often used for this. I've long used the HAO Rumble Mod, but they're rare and long out of production. But the JHS 3 Overdrive is a Rumble Mod clone, and I'll bet it would work really well for that purpose.

Thanks, the Rat suggestion makes a lot of sense. As it happens, I have a Rat clone (Mooer Black Secret) laying around, so I a/b'd it yesterday with the Fuzzolo. By myself in my apartment, I prefer the woolier sound of the Fuzzolo, but I can see how the Rat might cut through better, and in the context of a live mix, might still sound plenty gritty. It does seem to be doing some kind of nasal EQ thing that I couldn't seem to dial out with the Filter control, but again, maybe this'll actually be helpful in cutting through the mix. I'll try it out at band practice this week!

[Rob Morrison]

...I usually go before the volume pedal with these...

This is probably more important than the specific model of overdrive unit you use. Overdrive pedals compress your signal. Placing the OD unit downstream of the volume pedal will not give you proportional output vs. no OD. Increasing the volume pedal boosts the input gain to the OD, causing more compression and OD. Unless you specifically want that effect, always put the OD before the VP, so the VP is controlling the the OD's output, not it's input. Boosting the mids on a Fender amp will help you cut through better in the mix. If you're using something like a Twin, try setting mids around 6-7 and treble around 3-4. Too much bass can muddy things, too. What sounds good when you're playing alone in a quiet room is not necessarily what will sound good in band setting. Everybody needs to stay in their lane, that's what separates the pros from the schmoes

Thanks, this is great advice. For years I've been diehard about putting my VP after my dirt effects...for electric guitar, where my pedalboard was big enough to physically place the VP in the appropriate place in the signal chain. For PSG, because of where the VP is located (and because I'm running a mini-pedalboard that I'm trying to keep dead simple), I haven't placed the VP after dirt. But I'm going to experiment with this and see if there's a streamlined way for me to get that cabling sorted out that won't drive me nuts during setup and breakdown. Thanks for the great suggestion!

[Karen Sarkisian]

Jam Rattler is basesd on rat and def cuts thru. my 2cents

[Rob Morrison]

Jam Rattler is basesd on rat and def cuts thru. my 2cents

Yes, thank you for that great suggestion!

[Dave Stagner]

Boss Tone type fuzzes are classic for pedal steel. I have a JHS Plugin and it works well. Rat pedals are fuzz-like but cut through really well. I don't know about the Fuzzalo, but I find a lot of guitar fuzzes are just mush in a band setting - both too loud and not loud enough. (You couldn't pay me to use a Big Muff!)

Another thing that works really well is running fuzz into an overdrive to shape it and bring out the midrange. Tube Screamers are often used for this. I've long used the HAO Rumble Mod, but they're rare and long out of production. But the JHS 3 Overdrive is a Rumble Mod clone, and I'll bet it would work really well for that purpose.

Thanks, the Rat suggestion makes a lot of sense. As it happens, I have a Rat clone (Mooer Black Secret) laying around, so I a/b'd it yesterday with the Fuzzolo. By myself in my apartment, I prefer the woolier sound of the Fuzzolo, but I can see how the Rat might cut through better, and in the context of a live mix, might still sound plenty gritty. It does seem to be doing some kind of nasal EQ thing that I couldn't seem to dial out with the Filter control, but again, maybe this'll actually be helpful in cutting through the mix. I'll try it out at band practice this week!

Yes, the Rat sound is a bit nasal. But what's nasal at home is what cuts through onstage, and what's warm and fat at home is often what sinks into the mud onstage. For guitar, I'm a longtime Rat devotee, but on steel, I like the JHS Plugin better (Boss Tone type fuzz).

I'd say bring both the Rat and the Fuzzalo to band practice, play 'em both, and get feedback from the band. See what they think.

[Stew Crookes]

I've used TubeScreamers, a Fuzz Factory, a Hot Cake and now a Rat, and the Rat is by far my favourite.

Unlike a lot of steelers, I actually tend to like having the distortion pedal come after the volume pedal, and I dial it in so it sounds 'right' with the volume pedal at around 3/4 on, and play distorted without as much pedal movement as I do for clean playing.

When I've got it perfectly set, I can still clean things up a fair bit by pulling back on the VP but without losing much volume, or can push even harder for more crunch if I max out the volume pedal (and it doesn't get toooo much louder when I do).

I kind of treat the volume pedal more like a 'distortion amount' control when I'm playing dirty rather than it's usual role as an expressive tool as I want my crunch stuff to be more like a normal distorted electric guitar I guess!

[Bobby Martin]

MXR Distortion Plus perfect for steel and guitar since the '70s. Proud to be a caveman. "does not adjust easily to change".

[Larry Ball]

“STO” Pedal from Steeltronic’s… great fuzz/distortion.. specially designed for PSG… lots of controls for adjustment.

[Mike Fried]

I've used TubeScreamers, a Fuzz Factory, a Hot Cake and now a Rat, and the Rat is by far my favourite.

Unlike a lot of steelers, I actually tend to like having the distortion pedal come after the volume pedal, and I dial it in so it sounds 'right' with the volume pedal at around 3/4 on, and play distorted without as much pedal movement as I do for clean playing.

When I've got it perfectly set, I can still clean things up a fair bit by pulling back on the VP but without losing much volume, or can push even harder for more crunch if I max out the volume pedal (and it doesn't get toooo much louder when I do).

I kind of treat the volume pedal more like a 'distortion amount' control when I'm playing dirty rather than it's usual role as an expressive tool as I want my crunch stuff to be more like a normal distorted electric guitar I guess!

I second this approach with my Sarno Earth Drive; and for fuzzier sounds I use a Nocturne Marquesan, a Rat variation.

[Mark Perrodin]

i would like to recommend the mythos golden fleece. it fits my '52 trap deluxe and '60 wright custom perfectly. one knob that simply reads "more".

https://youtu.be/uhfguurAjrM?si=p7GLpG0ejoY-6NDX

[Rich Ertelt]

You mention Fuzz. I have never liked a fuzz on guitar, it is sort of ratty sounding to my ear, and I've never thought they cut through that well, though I will admit I have heard others use them (and, yes, on steel too) where they work. I just don't get on with a fuzz.

If you are just talking distortion in general, I'll tell you what I use on guitar, and now steel, after messing with OD pedals for 45 years. I use tube pedals. I am a huge Kingsley fan. I am actually using a Kingsley Harlot on pedal steel for a recording thing right now, on steel. Very singy, far, great sustain. Sounds like a great tube amp cranked. I have not use a SS pedal in a long time. I have two Kingsley pedal on my board on guitar gigs. Fat, warm, big And they cut through a mix like a champ.

Pricey though, and need good power.

[Rob Morrison]

I'm pleased to report that the Rat (in this case, a Mooer Black Secret) did indeed cut more than my Fuzzolo in a full-band context. It still got a little lost at times depending on what I was playing (single notes versus chords) or how loud the band got / what the guitarist was playing. I'm sure my distortion/fuzz hunt isn't over, but this is a step in the right direction, so thanks all!

i would like to recommend the mythos golden fleece. it fits my '52 trap deluxe and '60 wright custom perfectly. one knob that simply reads "more".

https://youtu.be/uhfguurAjrM?si=p7GLpG0ejoY-6NDX

This one has come up in my research before, and I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for it!

[Dave Grafe]

It's not really a fuzz box but I use Jackson's Silvertone 212 a lot when my clean tone needs a boost, just a little more hair on it, or even a full-on Elmore James wail. Many shows it stays on all night to cut through when the band is loud.

[Ken Metcalf]

You might need more clean headroom depending on how many watts your Fender amp is.
If the band is really loud a Twin may not cut it.
I use a Mosferatu before the Volume pedal.
A tube amp will typically get a better distortion sound.

[Ian Worley]

...If the band is really loud a Twin may not cut it...

Don't think I've ever heard that before! That would have to be a really loud band, my ears would be bleeding long before my Twin could no longer cut it

[Fred Treece]

Rob

What you may want to try is to add mids to your tone and then pull it back in the mix. This is a trick that I used alot when working in Nashville years ago. It may or may not work in your situation but you have nothing to lose.

regards,,

Mark T

I second this concept, especially if you like the unit you are using. A decent quality EQ pedal with a mid boost and high/low cut might turn your fizz into the fuzz you’re looking for. The Rat and the Tube Screamer are both mid-boost-ish.

I also suggest discussing with your guitar player about where each of you want to be in the mix at given times. If you are both simultaneously trying to “cut through”, then neither is “in” the mix. Volume wars, singer issues, etc.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I have been struggling with this issue forever. At this point what I do is use an overdrive/fuzz pedal that sounds good and turn it up. Because of the nature of the basic sound difference between a clean and distorted tone the overdriven sound just needs to be louder in order to maintain its position in the mix. A clean signal on the steel is like a laser beam and an overdriven signal is like a flood light.

[Colton Stokley]

Look for fuzzes that have a mid shift knob

Two good ones. EQD Hoof and Basic Audio Scarab Deluxe

This feature makes a HUGE difference