Small basic [lap steel] amp for small jams?

[Mark Evans]

I realize this topic has gone around, but, here we go…

I’m revisiting the small amp search. Am playing lap steeel (with little to no overdrive/lots of delay fx) thru my old Fishman Loudnox mini (used initially with weissenborn). Sounds pretty good.. but perhaps not optimal for lap steel?. Don’t need much power. 40-60w SS? What I don’t need are all those DSP amp sims built in FX gobbledygook on so many amps. I got that covered w/3-4 pedals. A Basic. 6.5-8” speaker. Light weight. Not a bank breaker.
Tube might be okay, but SS certainly fine, dependable for liv rm/outdoor jams.


Ideas?

[Jonathan Scherer]

I really like the Roland Cube Street. Runs a LONG time on six AA batteries. Discontinued now but they are available used. It does have the amp sims you say you do not want, but I like that, I use acoustic or clean for resonator and other sims for lap steel. There was one recently for sale here on the forum. I got mine a few years ago for $100 plus shipping.

May not be what you want but a nice option for me.

Lightweight, with two 6.5" neo speakers.

https://www.roland.com/us/products/cube_street/

Bobby Ingano uses one!

[D Schubert]

Roland Micro Cube. Ive had one for about 15 years. Loud enough if you don't have a drummer. Variety of sounds and effects. Amazon battery life. I just did google search, you can probably find for $60-80..

[Frank James Pracher]

Not sure about your area, but in my neck of the woods there's never a shortage of older Peaveys... built solid and sound great. Generally, they can be had fairly cheap. Facebook marketplace is a good place to look.

[Mark Evans]

I played/owned a Peavey Backstage… in like 1979
But nothing since. Wouldn’t know which models to pursue.
Suggestions?
And any other brand/models?

[Frank James Pracher]

I played/owned a Peavey Backstage… in like 1979
But nothing since. Wouldn’t know which models to pursue.
Suggestions?
And any other brand/models?

I have a Pacer that I absolutely love... Studio Pro 40 is pretty well regarded.

[Mark Evans]

I have a Pacer that I absolutely love... Studio Pro 40 is pretty well regarded.

Will check them out.
My only concern is the weights quoted on specs are over 30 pounds. Yikes, sayeth my old back.

[Peter Jacobs]

I’ve been really happy with a Fender Champion 20 for just this purpose. I originally got it for living room jams with friends playing acoustic guitars. But I’ve since used it at small electric jams that included drums, electric guitar, keys and bass and it hung in just fine.

As long as everyone is keeping the volume reasonable, it does the job well.

[Dave Mudgett]

I personally like the early to mid-80s smaller Peaveys for lap/console steel, specifically these models:

Backstage early 80s & Backstage Plus mid-80s, 10" speaker, 20/35 watts respectively
Studio Pro early 80s - 10" speaker, 20 watts
Studio Pro 40/50 - mid 80s, 12" speaker, 40/50 watts respectively

Gain structure is Pre/Saturation/Post gain controls with Bass/Mid/Treble controls
Stock reverb is 8EB2C1B short reverb pan, which you're stuck with on Backstage and Studio Pro, but I believe the Studio Pro 40/50 are big enough for large reverb pan (4EB/9EB series)

Backstage series have power amp in, but no line out.
Studio Pro series has preamp out, power amp in, and line out. Some optionally came with XLR line out (mine don't)

I own a Backstage, Backstage Plus, and one each of Studio Pro 40/50. I paid in the range of $35 to $80 for each of them. I think they've gone up in the last few years, but in comparison to the typical tube amps I often use, they're dirt cheap, and build like a brick outhouse. I haven't had to repair anything except one 4558 reverb driver/recovery chip in the Studio Pro 40, when I got it. And these guys are eminently repairable, unlike most of the modern double-sided, wave-soldered circuit boards with piles of knobs and effects. Chips are socketed, circuit boards and wiring are solid. I can't imagine what someone would charge to build amps like this today. But since most guitarists won't give these a second look, they're readily available for reasonable prices. But if you think about it, these amps were really made for a Telecaster or similar country-style guitar, and I use them for Tele a lot also.

The Backstage/Backstage Plus are loud enough for me to gig with for lap/console steel and Tele if I'm not looking for a lot of bass-heavy headroom and the stage volume is not stupid. The little Backstages are surprisingly good sounding for lap/console steel. In fact, with all the tube amps I own, I actually prefer these little Peaveys for straight steel to most of them.

The Studio Pro 40/50 are loud enough for a fairly loud lap/console + Tele gig. I don't really use any of these for pedal steel, although they would work for a very low-volume situation with a good high-headroom speaker.

The tone stack is not exactly Fender-like. I have to turn the bass up pretty high, and mids/treble pretty low. Typically something like Bass 8-10, Mid/Treble 2, plus or minus. The controls are pretty sensitive in this range. These amps take effects very well, and I usually use a bit of compression, which is, to me, the magic sauce with these particular amps.

If you really want more power, the Bandit/Bandit-65 or Special/Special-130 are also great, but generally louder and heavier than I need for straight-steel or Tele. Pacer is sort of a slightly older version of the Studio Pro or Bandit. There's also a Backstage 30, again a slightly older version of the Backstage. All of these are good and inexpensive, but I really like these early-mid 80s small-medium sized amps.

I always have an overdrive on my board, but with these amps, I don't usually need it because the Saturation Control really does a nice job of giving a bit of tube-style compression/distortion if it isn't over-used. Usually around 1-2, maybe 3 if I want to push it a bit more. More than that, it gets into that harder Mesa Boogie midrange crunch territory. No doubt that's what Jack Sondermeyer was going for, Boogies were the thing back then. I generally set the pre and post gains to get the clean sound and volume I'm looking for, and then if I want more push, I add the Saturation to where I'm getting what I want. The reverb and Saturation are foot-switchable with the standard Peavey 2-button footswitch on most or all of these.

[Brad Bechtel]

I just bought a Fender Champion 600 for just this purpose. Five watts, two tubes, 6 inch speaker.

There are plenty of low powered options though.

[Jack Hanson]

I favor small tube amps for playing my lap steels. If your pocketbook will allow it, it's hard to beat a blackface/silverface Champ/Vibrochamp, or a Musicmaster Bass Amp. Especially with a speaker upgrade from the original "Fender Special Design" CTS.

The relatively obscure and inexpensive little Crate VC 508 is a good choice if you're looking for a little dirt. It has a handy TRS jack that can be used as a line out, but does not cut out the speaker (which would be an 8" Celestion as original equipment).

I really like the sound of the mid-sixties 5-Watt wonders from CMI: the Kalamazoo Model 1 and Model 2, and the nearly identical Epiphone EA 100 and EA 101. The Epis get the nod for their cool cabinets; the Kalamazoos are by contrast relatively plain Jane. The Model 2 and EA 101 have tremolo, while the Model 1 and EA 100 do not. These came stock with a relatively wimpy 10" CTS loudspeaker, which sounds alright to me. Circuitry is the same aside from the Epis having a separate on/off switch, and the Kals have the on/off integral with the tone control. Great blues harp amps. It's no coincidence that older, small wattage amps marketed for lap steel guitars make great harp amps.

For battery power, I've used the Roland Micro Cube (meh), the Cube Street (better), and the Mobile Cube (best),

[Dave Grafe]

Maybe this will work for you

viewtopic.php?t=406090#p3238507

[Tim Whitlock]

Tube guy here. If I were looking for a small amp for low volume situations, I'd take a hard look at the Fender Vibro Champ Reverb. A Princeton Reverb would be a great choice too, giving you a bit more power if things start to get louder. Both are straightforward, simple to operate and have great tube tone.

[Mark Evans]

Tube guy here. If I were looking for a small amp for low volume situations, I'd take a hard look at the Fender Vibro Champ Reverb. A Princeton Reverb would be a great choice too, giving you a bit more power if things start to get louder. Both are straightforward, simple to operate and have great tube tone.

Fender’s are always appealing… but these seem to be in the the $1k+ range. A fair bit above my budget.

[Dave Mudgett]

I'm a vintage Fender (and other old-school tube amp) guy. I don't know many people more into them than I am. I have a Vibro Champ and a Princeton Reverb. They're great, I love 'em. I think it goes without saying that you can't go very wrong with one for the stated purpose.

But reading this:

I’m revisiting the small amp search. Am playing lap steeel (with little to no overdrive/lots of delay fx) thru my old Fishman Loudnox mini (used initially with weissenborn). Sounds pretty good.. but perhaps not optimal for lap steel?. Don’t need much power. 40-60w SS? What I don’t need are all those DSP amp sims built in FX gobbledygook on so many amps. I got that covered w/3-4 pedals. A Basic. 6.5-8” speaker. Light weight. Not a bank breaker.
Tube might be okay, but SS certainly fine, dependable for liv rm/outdoor jams.

I heard a desire to consider something different. Not complex (no DSP amp sims and FX gobbledygook), basic, reliable, not expensive, not real heavy, and so on. I've been through my share of modeling and other built-in DSP stuff, and I've come to the same conclusion.

I came to these small Peavey amps by accident. I got a Backstage Plus quite a few years ago to use as a slave for a modeler - just plug into the Power Amp In, away you go. It stayed in Nashville so I'd have something simple and portable to use for Tele when I'm down there. I never really explored using it or any of the other small-medium sized Peaveys as a standalone combo amp for guitar. I ultimately stopped using modelers, it came back home and went into storage.

The Studio Pro 40 came to me more or less by accident. A guy I knew had it at his booth at the Columbus guitar show. It had an nice early-60s Jensen alnico speaker in it. He said, "Dave, 35 bucks, get it the hell out of here, it's worth more than that for the speaker.". I obliged, pulled the speaker, and put the amp in my hot/cold attic and then storage unit for the next several years figuring I'd either strip it for parts, throw it out, give it to someone, or whatever.

During the pandemic, I had some time on my hands, and I was closing out the storage unit and getting rid of stuff I didn't want/need. I decided to stick a decent 12" speaker in the Studio Pro and try it. First with a Tele, and then with my Clilnesmith cast aluminum lap steel. I was totally shocked at how good it sounded. As I stated, it really works best with a few effects, the short-pan reverb ain't great. But with a bit of compression, reverb, and delay, it came alive.

I did the same with the Backstage Plus, and I was even more blown away at how great it sounded with the Clinesmith. 10" speaker, about 35 Watts RMS, clear as a bell. I found a slightly earlier Backstage (20-25 Watts RMS) cheap, which I now routinely use on gigs for Tele and/or steel alone or in combination with a Vibro Champ or a repro tweed Princeton (tweed Champ w/ tone control). Sometimes I'll use the Princeton Reverb instead of the Peavey, I consider them more-or-less interchangeable for my purpose.

Anyway - it's a cheap alternative. If I didn't already have a lifetime supply of 2 Backstage series and 2 Studio Pro series, I'd probably be reluctant to advertise how good they've been for me, LOL. YMMV. Initially, I got the "Evil Eye" looks from some of my vintage tube snob friends. At first.

BTW - if you're weight-conscious, might wanna go for the Backstage. Studio Pro isn't super heavy, but not exactly light either. Nothing compared to a big pedal steel amp, though.

[Lee Rider]

I use a little Vox DA-5 amp. That particular model is discontinued but can be found used for around $50. Has either wall wart or battery power so good for camping, etc. I use it for a preamp sometime too into a powered speaker, sounds great.

[Dave Grafe]

Fender Blues Junior is badass, played pedal steel through one mic'd off and fed to monitors when my amp went down. Sublime actually.

[Mark Evans]

Always fascinating to listen to a variety of takes by steel players - the tube group, the SS group, and, not present here, the digitally processed sound group (Tonex et al). All legit as we all try to find the tone we dig. I’ve combed postings and reviews of affordable tube options: fender Pro Jr. IV, vibro champs, Bugera (rattly, cheaply made?), Blues Jr. et al. Often the selling point is ‘early smooth breakup’ which is not really desirable for me. Often hefty. Plus, sure, ‘it’s a Fender,’ but a tad pricey for my budget.

Most illuminating is a broad agreement on earlier Peavey models. Since I’m trying to contain costs, they become an attractive option. Over time the need for smooth tube saturated breakup has become less a part of my tone. Combining a couple time/delay pedals and a simple Mojomojo overdrive has gotten me the of grit when I want it… so having an amp that cleanly delivers the sound feels more important (hence, at present, the Fishman Loudbox works)… just might be nicer with a bigger speaker and more robust ‘electric guitar’ circuit. And weight… 20 or so pounds.

Keep the conversation going

[Mark Evans]

Okay…
I’m narrowing it down after WAY too much trolling of the interwebs for models, reviews, prices and - especially - weights of various amps.

I really drilled down for details on the many small/mid-sized tube amps for cost, power, weight, features and clean tone. But Since I’ve been liking the general tone coming out of the small Fishman loudbox acoustic amp (SS w/6.5” speaker), I’ve decided that I could closely reproduce that tone with a SS amp like Peavey - but fill up the sonic space better with a 10 or 12” speaker… on a reasonable budget.

Thanks to Dave Mudgett for your concise review and detailing of Peaveys thru your playing time. For cost, clean tone pounds per wattage, etc., I’m leaning towards the Envoy 110 or the Studio Pro 112 40 watt. The Envoy has the edge with weight, about 23 pounds - depending upon speaker… about the same weight as the Fishman. (The SP-112 IS ABOUT 40#).
Now I’ll have to wait until local Craigslist or maybe the Music Center Used and Vintage produce offerings.

[Dave Mudgett]

Just to be very clear - I am specifically talking about the early-mid 1980s Peaveys, not the later amps, starting with the black-panel Backstage 50/Studio Pro 60/Studio Pro 112, and then the later teal-striped/red-striped/silver-striped amps and cyclops amps, which is what the Envoy 110 amps are. I've played some of these later amps, but not all of them. I liked some, and didn't care for others.

Peavey made a lot of design changes starting in the mid-late 80s and onward into the 2000s. I know that for that first black-panel Envoy 110 and the teal-strip Envoy 110, they went to the SuperSat circuit, which I never liked. I found the distortion pretty buzzy. I think red-stripe and silver-stripe implemented the 'transtube' technology, and may be a bit better. At some point, they had a "Classic" vs "Modern" switch, I believe these were transtube. The Envoy 110 and Bandit 112 from this era are the same preamp circuit, with the Envoy something like 40 Watts into 1-10" and Bandit 80-100 Watts into 1-12". The cabinets also changed. The early-mid-80s amps aren't pine, but 3/4" plywood or MDF. After this, the cabs got considerably thicker and heavier. Up through at least the red-stripe and at least part-way through the silver-stripe series, the ICs were socketed, and the amps were made in Mississippi. I believe that by the time the Cyclops amps came out, they were made in China and the ICs were soldered in. This matters a lot when servicing.

As far as weight goes, here's the link for the early-80s Backstage, 20 Watts - https://assets.peavey.com/literature/ma ... 361042.pdf

The manual states it weighs 23 pounds stock. I don't think the Backstage Plus 35 Watts is a lot heavier, but probably a bit. I am staring at my Backstage sitting up on the top shelf of my amp shelf. But I just had surgery last week and have a 10 lb lifting limit for the next month, so I can't pick it up and weigh it. But that sounds about right, weight-wise. I have a Tele gig tomorrow night, and one of my bandmates is stopping by to grab my gear. If I think of it, I'll ask him to put it on my scale before we head out. Anyway, I don't think the Backstage is heavier than the Envoy 110.

To lighten these old Peaveys up, some people make a solid pine cabinet. At 23 pounds, I don't think it matters much for a smaller amp like the Backstage. I suppose one could put in a neodymium speaker, but the stock speaker sounds OK to me and isn't real heavy. I ultimately stuck an Eminence Rajin Cajun 10" in my Backstage Plus. Sounds fine, but in hindsight, I don't think it mattered all that much. My Backstage is completely stock at this point, with what I believe is even the original speaker.

I know some people hate the look of these old Peaveys. I dunno, on these smaller Peaveys, I think they look fine. Definitely industrial styling, but I guess I like that.

Again, YMMV on all of this. I highly suggest trying some out and see what you prefer yourself. Plenty of these old Peaveys out there. I was at a Music Go Round in Maryland a couple of weeks ago, they had a pretty nice, stock Backstage in there. I think it was $150.

[Dave Mudgett]

As far as weight goes, here's the link for the early-80s Backstage, 20 Watts - https://assets.peavey.com/literature/ma ... 361042.pdf

The manual states it weighs 23 pounds stock.

FWIW, I finally got Dr's clearance to pick up enough weight to bring my Backstage down from the shelf and weigh it. It came in around 24 pounds, with what I am pretty sure is the stock speaker. My little Vibro Champ weighed in at about 25 pounds with a very lightweight vinyl cover. I was actually pretty surprised that the Vibro Champ wasn't lighter, but I guess the tube circuitry and extra transformer were enough to bring it up. And the Backstage definitely has significatnly more clean volume potential.

I know it sounds screwy to a lot of people, but that little Backstage is, to my ears, the best-sounding amp I have tried (and I've tried a lot) for my long-scale Clinesmith cast aluminum 8-string with Bigsby-style pickup. And I was literally thinking about pitching these little Peaveys, when my packrat sensibility pushed me to just do a final check to make sure I knew what the hell I was talking about. Obviously, I was previously listening with my eyes and biased brain more than my ears. And after some more extensive testing, a bunch of more expensive and larger amps got the boot.

[Mark Evans]

I appreciate all the comments.
Locally, a Backstage 50 popped up. I assume it’s the basic Backstage set up (visually it appears so, with an fx loop and a couple push-pull knobs) with 45 watts vs 20 or 30. The extra few watts are appealing in a ‘more headroom at lower volumes’ way. Or would it make a difference? There is not as much info on the interwebs and YouTube re: backstage 50s. The seller states it’s about 27 pounds (vs 25 for the Envoy or other backstage amps). The proof is in the pudding so I guess I need to audition it.

Any Backstage 50 ushers?

[Bruce Bjork]

Spark 2
https://youtu.be/KpkJPZTlxvo?si=ZF6HF3jJFF8Tot1X

[Mark Evans]

Spark 2
https://youtu.be/KpkJPZTlxvo?si=ZF6HF3jJFF8Tot1X

Very interesting that the Spark came up on the list.
Over the last year or so, I was leaning very heavily in that direction. I actually got my Yamaha THX-10 from a guy (hollow body jazz player) who upgraded to the Spark from the THX. I’ve Never used one. Read a ton of reviews. Cool features. Super cool looking. Portable, but have heard the speaker doesn’t hold up well in a small jam situation (?).

I realize it’s the ‘new thing’ (controlling tone via plugins and iPhone screens), but I’ve found (with the patch editor on my THR-10) that I seem to spend more time tweaking and less time playing (the so called ‘shiny object’)

This is a tad off this topic, but curious about others who rely more on screens and plugins?

[Richard Sinkler]

My buddy has a Spark Go, Spark 2, and Spark live. 2 weekends ago, I spent 4 days with him to get him ready to do an open mic thing. He wanted me to try all of them for steel. I can say that I would not recommend any of them, but maybe the Spark live if a small venue with no drummer or micing amps..

1. Spark Go - totally useless.
2. Spark 2 - used twin reverb model, no effects except reverb. Sounded decent at very low volume. Used for practice with my friend so I didn't have to lug my NV112 up his stairs. The small speakers just didn't seem adequate for live gigging on it's own. I wouldn't use it outside my house.
3. Spark Live - at I believe 125 watts, maybe doable on a stage. My buddy used his with a Squire Tele, I had him use the twin reverb model as he was trying to use the ODS model, which I assume is a Dumble Overdrive Special which is a distorted amp model. For our open mic thing, it was adequate, but we also went the next night for a jam section. The Spark Live couldn't keep up with the full band. They ended up micing his amp because at the louder volume, it distorted. But actually, all amps are mic'd there anyway.

I just don't think the small speakers are suited for a pedal steel, but maybe a lap steel. I played C6 through the Spark 2 and thought it was going to explode.