Snapping strings

[Phillip Leggett]

Hi everyone, I have a Zum Steel Stage One and the third string (B pedal) seems to be breaking quite frequently. This is the third one but I’ve snapped in about two months.

I’m using D’Addario NYXL strings gauge 12.

It seems to be snapping at the ball end by the changer. I don’t see why a string should be snapping this frequently. Any help would be appreciated!

[Phillip Leggett]

Okay, on close inspection there seems to be very slight grooves in the changer… Do you think these could be buffed out?

[Jerry Overstreet]

I would defer to Doug Earnest concerning an acceptable frequency of string breakage on those guitars, but I'll say that one 3rd. string a month is not uncommon for a lot of guitars if you are playing a lot, like 3 or 4 hours every day.

Concerning the grooves on the changer fingers, do yourself a favor and do a search on this board for this issue. There have been many discussions covering methods and cautions on doing this. Good luck and happy picking.

[Larry Dering]

I have polished out that type grove with metal polish and a soft cloth. Important to follow the curve of the finger to avoid flat spots. I'm sure a search will offer other suggestions. I own a stage one and haven't experienced any excessive string breaking. Make sure there's no sharp edges at the break point of the string causing it. There was a discussion on bad batches of strings not long ago.

[Ian Rae]

I wonder if 12 is a bit heavy
11 is more usual and needs less tension

[Samuel Phillippe]

I am using 12s and like the tone.......I changed for tone not because of breakage although it does help.

Sam

[Ken Metcalf]

Buy strings made for Steel guitar.
I use these for my 3rd strings.

[Phillip Leggett]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

[Phillip Leggett]

*UPDATE*

600 grit sandpaper fixed this.

Cheers!

[Dave Grafe]

Every string has a small burr where the wire wrapped around the ball end is clipped, if the string is installed with that side of the string against the changer finger it will break fairly quickly, especially if it is acting against a physical groove. With the extra tension required to pull the .012 up to an A the poor thing has little hope of survival.

When installing a new string of any guage run your finger along the wrap at the ball end and identify the "burr" and "smooth" sides, then make sure the smooth side is down and the burr is up and away from the changer. Also you might try a lighter guage in the third position, .010, .011, .011.5 are all perfectly acceptable, and if properly installed MAY increase string life.

Regardless of guage used the E9 string 3 takes a lot of abuse and is almost always the first to break, and having two or three break over time before any others do is not uncommon.

[Brett Lanier]

I wouldn’t blame the string. I use NYXL 12-38’s and haven’t broken a string in years. That’s with both 24” and 24.5” scale length guitars.

It’s good practice to polish each finger with a microfiber cloth each time you take the strings off. The tiniest amount of dirt will stay in there and make the grooves worse over time. You can hand polish the fingers, but I’d finish it off with a much finer grit than 600. You can start with that lightly, but graduate up to around 2000 or more. The finer the better for the end polish. It’s a bit of a job… but the better way is to do it is very carefully on a buffing wheel with a light compound. Go slow, and don’t let the fingers heat up too much. Of course you need to take the changer apart for that. Whatever method you use, remember to try and keep the radius consistent. Sometimes freshly polished fingers combined with a clean roller nut and the right break angle of the strings can make a dramatic difference in tone.

[Dennis A Brown]

Speaking of the right "break angle" of the strings, should they be installed with the string over the post or under the post? The former would have a shallow break angle, the latter a steeper one. And, of course, wind direction reverses as well. Does this have any effect on the internal gears of the tuners?

[Brett Lanier]

Good question. Over the post in almost every instance. I doubt the gears know the difference. The gears themselves aren’t really what’s taking the pressure from the string tension.

About a year ago Laur Joamets and Mike Drassler brought their stage ones over for a check up within a couple weeks of each other. Laur had his wound under the posts… He said it sounded better that way. And it did, by a lot. Mike’s guitar was suffering from a lot of buzz at the roller nuts. We fixed some of that by moving things around ever so slightly, and adjusting the string angles. Still though, Laur’s guitar sounded a lot better. The difference acoustically was massive, and he said he wasn’t having any string breakage issues.

[Chris Templeton]

Could be a bad batch of strings. Live Steel Strings had .0115s They are better than 11s.

[David Wren]

I currently use a SIT .012, but for years I used a SIT .0115.... not much difference in diameter, but it seemed to make a huge difference in string breakage.

As for the finger grooves, on my Carter, I would refinish the bridge (fingers) each time I would change strings... and I would change strings after 10 or so gigs, or whenever I was doing a one set performance.... you really don't want to be changing strings between songs

Also, although not in this thread, when you have your strings off is a great time to put a drop of fine oil in between each roller, and in between each finger.

[Jerry Overstreet]

....then there's this thing from long time steel guitar mechanic and provider of special tools Clem Schmitz.
Haven't tried it personally, but it appears to be a good way to remove light gouges etc. while maintaing the roller bridge radius.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286474029820?_ ... R5SO4qiOZg

Anybody tried this tool to remove those string grooves from changer fingers?

The seller is listed as clem. I'm assuming it's Clem Schmitz that has been providing pedal steel products for several years?

[Dennis A Brown]

Brett, thanks for relating your experience with the different winding angles on the tuners. I had a similar experience (not intentionally) when I mistakenly set the EB electric winder in the wrong direction as I restrung my Justice S-10. I'd installed the first couple of strings under the post and decided to just go ahead with the new set and see if it made any difference. I did notice a subtle improvement in tone and volume, so I may decide to continue this way. I've been using the SIT EM nickle plated pack and I like the way it sounds with the 705, a little less bright than the stainless pack the guitar shipped with. The only time I snapped a string was when I didn't pay close enough attention to winding the third string properly on the post.

[Brett Lanier]

I'd installed the first couple of strings under the post and decided to just go ahead with the new set and see if it made any difference. I did notice a subtle improvement in tone and volume, so I may decide to continue this way.

Just keep a close eye on the strings that are being both raised and lowered, like the fourth string. Make sure they aren’t returning sharp after the lower. I’m inclined to suggest sticking with keeping the wrap over the post like it was designed to be… But then again if it works and it sounds better, who am I to say it’s wrong. As a new player, you may not yet notice that strings are returning 5 or 10 cents sharp after the lower (if they are). But it’s the kind of thing that once you notice it, it’ll bug you until you find a fix or compromise you can live with.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Another thing that can cause problems, Sometimes when a string breaks on an aluminum changer finger. If you look close the string will break into 3 pieces.
Look close, With a good magnifying glass, At both broken string ends, And small triangle of the string is missing.
If that small triangle of broken string, Is imbedded in a grove in the changer finger.
And a new string is put in the grove, That little triangle of string, Will make the new string break right in the same place.

[Donny Hinson]

Speaking of the right "break angle" of the strings, should they be installed with the string over the post or under the post? The former would have a shallow break angle, the latter a steeper one. And, of course, wind direction reverses as well. Does this have any effect on the internal gears of the tuners?

The steeper break angle winding under the post causes more downforce on the nut, and that can cause increased friction and hysteresis. I wouldn't advise doing that. Also, #600 grit is pretty aggressive for polishing. unless it's just the first step you're doing, and you're polishing afterwards.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Speaking of the right "break angle" of the strings, should they be installed with the string over the post or under the post? The former would have a shallow break angle, the latter a steeper one. And, of course, wind direction reverses as well. Does this have any effect on the internal gears of the tuners?

I bought a Zum a few years ago that had the strings wound under. Sounded and played just fine to me. When it came time to change them, I did the front neck under like before but did the back neck in the conventional over wind.

I found the under was just too tedious an installation and it was just hard to get used to the reverse winding procedure so the next change went over....I couldn't tell any difference in the sound or tuning stability.

I can't see any reason that the gears care which way they rotate because they're already turning both directions tuning and re-stringing.

I posted a question/poll here about this back in 2008 and of course got some critical and patronizing comments.

Our friend Doug Earnest and a few others came to the rescue by stating there could be merit to underwinding. Thanks Doug.
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