Coming back sharp

[Larry Allen]

I should know this but haven’t had this before , on the steel I just picked up, the E’s (4 & 8 )return in tune after lowering them but comes back sharp after raising (F lever) ?.. rod adjustment?

[John Hyland]

I believe some people attribute this to the nut rollers needing some lubrication such as a drop of a sewing machine oil.

[Larry Allen]

All lubed. New guitar..

[John Hyland]

All lubed. New guitar..

I would check with the manufacturer.

[Bill Moore]

Larry, when this happens, most of the time all you need is a little more travel on that lever. Just adjust the stop a bit and re-tune. More travel will usually correct this. Even new guitars sometimes need adjustments.

[Larry Allen]

Thanks Bill, I’ll try that..

[Bengt Erlandsen]

You should check if the return spring on the lowering finger is too tight/strong. Some guitars have different resting points for the lowering finger and this resting point may sometimes act as a pivot causing the lowering finger to move in the wrong direction and actually start raising the string in pitch. When the raise rod starts pulling you induce a split in the scissors between the raise and lowering finger. This split may not return back to normal when the raise rod releases if the return spring on the lowering finger is too tight/strong. Spring should connect as close to the pivot resting point as possible to avoid/minimize unwanted issues.

You might need help from another person to observe what move and what doesnt at the changer finger at the same time the raise lever is engaged/released in order to locate and fix the issue.

Best of luck finding the problem and hopefully it is an easy fix.

sincerely
Bengt Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

[Donny Hinson]

Make sure the strings are pulling is a straight line at the keyhead. If the strings are pulling sideways, the rollers will not roll freely, and the string will come back sharp.

[Bobby D. Jones]

You did not name the guitar the problem is with.
How is the key head on the guitar finished?
If the key head is powder coated. Check the grooves in the nut roller.
When the powder coat is heated and melts. Sometimes little globs can roll into the groves and cause real problems.
If there is any side pull on the rollers. Things just goes down hill faster.
I had to remove the rollers on 1 guitar and take a needle file to the sides of every slot to get the return to open problems solved.

[Larry Allen]

Mahalo to all that answered.. this weekend I will get this solved…the guitar is a 2021 Excel Superb.. very low usage from the original owner… Larry

[Barry Yasika]

Try to get a look underneath and get a clear view of the changer. I had a guitar do that once too. It turned out to be a small piece of a broken string. Probably the 3rd string because I break those all the time. A buddy of mine said that he had that problem and Bobby Seymore told him to take the guitar outside and spray the changer down with carburetor cleaner, then oil it up with 3 and 1 oil. I'd be nervous to try that but my buddy said it worked. Good Luck.

[Larry Allen]

Aloha Barry. Not the problem, BTW I use CLP for cleaning and Tri-Flow pin point to lube..

[Earnest Bovine]

nut rollers needing some lubrication

I don't think this (nut rollers needing some lubrication) is Larry's problem. This would cause the opposite problem: over-return; i.e. coming back flat after releasing a raise. This is usually caused by hysteresis. When the raise is released, if the roller nut doesn't roll perfectly (or if the string is stiff where it passes over the roller, which all strings are), then the part of the string between roller nut and tuning peg stays a little tighter than it should be, which makes the big part of the string looser than it should be, i.e. flat.

[Earnest Bovine]

the E’s (4 & 8 )return in tune after lowering them but comes back sharp after raising

It is worth considering another way to describe this same behavior. If you tune the string so that it is in tune after you release the raise, then your problem would be that it returns flat after you release the lever that lowers E to D#. So you should look at the changer after you release the lower and it comes back from D# to E. Does the lower bar return all the way to its stop? Check both E strings. If not, try tightening the return spring(s). And of course be sure that everything that pulls is moving without rubbing etc.

[Larry Allen]

Once again thank you all for chiming in.. I got it by getting out the Excel book, ended up tightening the Lower helper spring 2 turns (4 & E-D#-D back to E then tightened the helper spring for the raise (4 & 8 ) LKL E + F -E , 1 1/2 turns ..this is a 24 1/4” Superb. My other Excels are 25 1/2” and I’ve never had to adjust them.. all in tune now. Mahalo Nui.