If you had to lose one note from E9 what would it be?

[Ryan Forster]

I’m trying to figure out what would be the best tuning for my Sho Bud D9 on the E9 neck with it missing that 10th string. I have tried a few different tunings but am finding it hard to settle and am wondering if anybody has any advice? It has the basic 3 pedals of a standard E9 and i am in the process of adding a knee lever or 2 but need to commit to a tuning before i start fabbing up all the parts. Wondering if leaving out the high F# note is the way to go?

Thanks
Ryan

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[Jack Kilbride]

Personally, I would lose one of the low notes (D natural ahem). I find the re-entrant strings are useful for single lines. The low D is useful for single note runs on the low strings, and gives an easy b7 for dominant chords with no pedal pressed, but I would rather have all the high stuff IMO

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'd hate to lose my F# as I use it a lot for chromatic licks etc.

I'm not sure which model of S/B you have there...finger tip?, so I don't know how difficult it is to make changes but:

If it were my guitar, assuming the capability of the changer and adds are not terribly difficult and/or expensive, I'd probably omit the low D string and put in on the knee lever that lowers the Eb string to D. That way you'd still retain everything on a 10 string std. E9 tuning, just have to KL the D when you want it.

This is a common setup we use on 12 string Universal guitars so that we can have everything we need for both tunings on one neck.

[Ryan Forster]

It’s likely a late 59’ sho bud permanent and it certainly isn’t the easiest thing to add knee levers but i luckily know a welder so i can get it done. Yah i originally had it tuned to the early pedal tunings with the E or G# on top that they used in the era it was built but i see what your saying with the F# on top and losing the D on the bottom which is what i just set it up too. With a knee lever i can lower that E to a D on string 8 so i can have that note option, as well as lowering the 2nd string D# to a D. If i could have just one more knee lever what should i do? Mind you lowers are harder to do and I can’t have a lower and a raise on the same string.

[Larry Allen]

Here’s another approach..lose the D on 9, use the E on 8 to drop to D# -D. Add low E on 10.

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[Ryan Forster]

It only has 9 strings so i don’t have the option of the 10th string, and with these old machines you can’t do all the modern knee lever changes that are on more modern steels. So that copedant wouldn’t be an option for this sho bud permanent (built before knee levers were part of the steel).

[Jerry Overstreet]

I thought it might be a perm, so adding changes could be an issue. I'm not familiar with these except to know the are welded cranks, but is there a way to add bell cranks and rods to modify to a more modern system?

I defer to the more knowledgeable on this model of Sho~Bud.

I missed that it doesn't have any knee levers. I'd have to have raising and lowering E's.

[Fred Treece]

I suppose I could survive without string 2, but life would be a lot less interesting.

This reminds me of a question a guitar player friend asked me about which finger I would prefer to lose if it had to happen.
Couldn’t decide then and I can’t really decide now about which string I could do without.

Playing through a song with any broken string is like swimming with one arm tied behind your back. Plus, I went from 10-string E9 to 12-string E9, so I’m the wrong guy to ask, and that’s why I answered

[Donny Hinson]

That's a beauty cabinet-end Sho~Bud! Not a lot of them left around these days, much less being played.

Hal Rugg (who was a lot more steel-savvy than me) also played a D9 Sho~Bud back in the early '60s. He didn't have the bottom B-note, but chose to have string 9 with a D-note, which he lowered to C# with P3. He also had only one lever, which had his 2nd string D-note raising to Eb and lowering the 8th string to Eb.

As for me, I'm just a hacker. And though I was playing back in the '60s, it was on a D8 Fender 1000, so I had only 8 string necks. I tried a setup like Hal's for awhile, but decided to go to a straight major tuning (in my case, a D-tuning) with two octaves of majors and the chromatic strings on top, and I will tell you why. This actually worked better for me back then because I often played in bands with no rhythm guitar, and many times bands with no lead guitar! This tuning gave me strummable (though limited) 6-string chords, but still allowed me to play 90% or better of the simple country stuff that was popular back then. Because I didn't have the standard 7th or 9th string notes, I just learned to play without them, and did that for about 8 years. As an adjunct, I also had another pedal in addition to the standard 3, so I lowered strings 5 and 8 a half-tone (with the pedal next to my A pedal), and my one added knee lever lowered strings 4 and 7 (the equivalent of the 4 and 8 lower we have today). After all, Jimmy Day had done his "Steel and Strings" album with just the A, B, & C pedals, and a tuning with no chromatics, so even though my choices were somewhat limiting, musically, I felt pretty good about my setup.

Personally, I would keep the chromatics at all costs. They really are that useful! And if i had to lose one string from the standard E9th, it would be the 7th string (the 9th of the chord). But as I said, I'm kind of 'old school", being just as comfortable playing my 8-stringer as I am on my 10-stringers.

[Richard Sinkler]

Even though I use it a lot, I would lose the D on string 9. All the other strings are necessary to me for being able to do scale based runs that are so common in country music. Hopefully the D in the lower strings can be achieved by lowering strings 8 on a lever. I don't know enough about the permanent if that is possible.

Can the changer raise and lower the same string?

Can the same string be raised and/or lowered multiple times?

[Bill Fisher]

C flat.

[Dale Rottacker]

I'm not as "Scale conscious" as some, and more Chord Driven. I know of a few who've done away with the 9th string D, but for me that 9th string is integral for the way I play. Its "central" for me as so much of the chordy things I do pivot off of it. For me I'd maybe lose the 1st string. Losing any of them is going to cause something to suffer ... so I maybe starting from the style of playing you gravitate too may help with determining the answer.

[Dennis Detweiler]

To keep the copedent simple and mechanically transistional and with one kneelever, I would just do without the low B and keep the 9th string (D) for bottom string on your guitar. One knee with two pulls, lower 8 to Eb and 2 to D. This would get you close to the ShoBud Crossover copedent. Then listen to some of the recordings from that earlier era to grasp how those players were getting by playing with guitars that had fewer mechanical capabilities. Lloyd Green didn't and still doesn't have a 4th string E to Eb on a kneelever. He did make much use of the low D string. If you add a second kneelever, add the F lever. This should get you anywhere you want to go on E9.

[Rich Ertelt]

I would hate to lose the 9th string, I love the 7th for chords, and with the knee lever, dropping 1/2 step, the 3rd of the I chord with AB down. I don't play lines much on the low B, maybe I need to explore that more, but that is the one I would pick.
It's funny, being a guitar player by trade, I Really miss that low E and have consider (well, not that seriously, but ...) replacing the B with a low E. Maybe with a way to drop the D to a B. Well, maybe someday I'll try it.

But yea, the low B is the one I could get away with the easiest.

[Dave Campbell]

i could also live without the low B.

[Ryan Forster]

Thanks for all the great ideas, i currently have it set up without the low D string but am now curious about dropping the B. I do like having the B down there so when AB pedals down i have a nice A6 chord which i find useful for lots of stuff. I play in an older style and i do use slants on my pedal steel a bunch to compensate for Lack of changes and have been half pedaling to get notes such as the E -F on my C pedal, although that is one of the levers i will be adding. It is way to complicated to put a raise and lower on the same string so i am just going to avoid that. I got the idea to just lower the 8 string E to D with a lever from someone who is super knowlagable on these old permanents that way i can still get that note and not feel like i am sacrificing it.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Sounds like a good plan. Keep the low B and drop the low E to D. That'll work! Good Luck!

[Frank Freniere]

Hey Ryan -

Cool guitar. But what's that thing on top of the piano keyboard, the thing that looks like a saw handle at one end and tapers like sword at the other?

[Ryan Forster]

My partner plays the musical saw, very vocal like sound and can play melodies very beutifully

[Frank Freniere]

My partner plays the musical saw, very vocal like sound and can play melodies very beutifully

Cool - thanks!

[Pat Chong]

Hi Ryan,
Interesting topic. At one point I tried to remove the D string, but ended up replacing it. I ended up removing the 7th string, F#, because the strings on either side of it (6th G# and 8th E) could both be taken to F#. You might take the 8th string E to F# on your C pedal, some do that... I dropped the F# to add a low E. This is 10 strings, but you can skip the low E and still have your low B (Cb)....Pat.

[Fred]

I guess I'm just not really an E9 player because I'd drop the top two strings and put an E on the bottom.

[James P Mitchell]

Here’s another approach..lose the D on 9, use the E on 8 to drop to D# -D. Add low E on 10.A7BBFF0B-5D20-47CB-B589-4242831DADAB.jpeg

That's what I have done for 15 years or so.
Thinking about going back to standard E9, but I do like having that power chord on the bottom there.

[Henry Matthews]

I’d just cut out the low B. Though it has a lot of uses, could be done without very easy but would take some getting used to.
To me, all other strings are very important, especially the chromatics.