"Volume Pedal" question for Quad Cortex (or other modeler) users

[Matthew Walton]

Hi all, question for those of you using a Quad Cortex, Tone Master Pro, Helix, Kemper, etc.

Do you still use a "real" volume pedal, running either into the input or in the effects loop, or do you use an expression pedal and just map it to a volume pedal inside the modeler? If you use an expression pedal, which one do you like for robustness and feeling like a typical low-profile volume pedal for steel?

I've been toying with the idea of getting a Quad Cortex or similar, and on my current pedalboard I have my volume pedal after distortion/drive but before delay. So if I used a real volume pedal, I'd have to use one of the effects loops just to get volume control where in the chain I want.

[Michael Hartz]

I run a Telonics volume pedal between my guitar and the input of my Kemper.

[Doug Taylor]

I use either a Hilton or Goodrich VP plugged in the input of a KEMPER the same as plugging it into an amp. It works and sounds the same whether into the KEMPER or into an amp.

[George Seymour]

Telonics volume pedal into the Quad Cortex....and the QC can take up to four individual "instruments" works wonderfully...amazing gadget

[Jon Jaffe]

With a TONEX One, I use a Hilton for a live stage with an amplifier; for direct connection to a soundboard, I use a pot pedal.

[Tor Arve Baroy]

I have the same search, altough for use with the Fender Tone master. I use an expression pedal for a volume pedal, and the best Ive tried so far, is the Fender Tread-Light. It is pretty good, but would love a low-profile hilton-style. That would be even better.

[Matthew Walton]

If nothing else, it would be pretty easy to put a 10k pot in a Goodrich pedal and rewire it as an expression pedal. Heck, it might be fine with the 500k pot, in which case you could just rewire one the two output jacks to be an expression jack. Though you'd still be dealing with the joys of string activation type pedals.

Ooh, another great advantage of using an expression pedal instead of a volume pedal, is that you could easily set up a patch that keeps you at a constant volume and instead use the pedal beneath your foot as a wah pedal.

[Tim Pillow]

Real steel guitar players use real volume pedals, like a Telonics volume pedal. I’ve used a kemper, and it’s a great great unit. I have great steel guitar profiles for it. I Just sold my Kemper and I’m going try my hand at Quad Cortex.

To the point…I’m not sure why you’d want to use an expression pedal for a steel guitar or even using that as a substitution for a volume pedal… maybe I’m missing something here. Typically lead guitar players use way wah and stuff of that nature. Since I dont know the type of music you are trying to play, which I’m assuming is country music for the most part. maybe I’m speaking at of ignorance, but I would think somebody would chime in here and deter you away from using an expression pedal as a volume pedal, they are two different things. It makes zero sense in the traditional sense of learning to play the guitar as we know it, while you re developing your technique.
if you are a beginner which I’m not saying you are, I don’t know anything about you, but get you technique down before you start getting into crazy stuff like messing around with a WaWA pedals, commonly used for lead guitar players who are typically covering pop rock, and things of that nature unless you’re into some other type of music that’s experimental or whatever.

This is just my two cents.

[Matthew Walton]

Hi Tim, I’ll let others be the judge of whether I’m a “real” steel player, but I can tell you I use a real volume pedal currently. Telonics Super Pro is my main with a Goodrich as a backup. I primarily play Western swing, honky tonk, and jazz when I can get away with it.

Why use an expression pedal? Because if you plug it into say a Quad Cortex, I believe you can map that pedal to any parameter you desire. At its most basic, put a volume block in your virtual signal chain and set the pedal to control volume. Nice quick virtual volume pedal. But if you want to get more experimental (which sometimes I do like to do), it would be easy to set up a different patch where instead of volume, you could map the expression pedal to overdrive gain, echo speed, or yes, even a wah.

And like I said in my original post, I prefer my volume pedal after overdrive/distortion, but before delay/reverb. So using a real volume pedal to achieve that would require using one of the effects loops, two cables, and going from the digital to the analog domain and back.

Lastly, the Telonics is an amazing pedal and I super happy I bought it with no regrets. But the three primary sales pitches are:
* No noise from scratchy pots
* High-quality preamp/buffer
* customizable taper

I haven’t looked into the third point on the QC, but the first two points are solved by plugging your guitar straight into the QC and using an expression pedal instead of a pot volume pedal.

[Larry Dering]

I consider Paul Franklin to be a real steel player and he uses a pot pedal. I have a slew of Goodrich VPs, a Hilton, Dunlop and a couple Ernie Ball VPs. I run my Goodrich into the Tonex, or Boss GT1, or Line 6 modeling pods.

[Bill McCloskey]

I tried one of the Kemper pedals but went back to the goodrich. the kemper pedals just don't have the feel I need for pedal steel

[Mathew Peluso]

Justin Schipper uses an expression pedal for volume through an HX and he’s as real as it gets. He talks about it at around 31:00 here:

https://youtu.be/cbsLhRcz4vk?si=sxcygKg-IToHCLgo

[Stephen Kuester]

I keep an HX stomp on my pedal board. I always have my telonics VP in the effects loop whether I’m using a real amp or running direct with one of the amp models. I really like it the effects loop because I can put effects before or after the volume pedal. Can’t see using an expression pedal as a VP just because I’m so accustomed to taper and travel of the telonics. It would be super cool to add an expression knee lever for wah and other expression effects.

[Cappone dAngelo]

Some of the advantages of using an expression pedal are that you can easily place the volume control anywhere in the (virtual) signal chain, and on a per-preset basis - which seems to be of value to you, based on the above - and that it can be assigned to control other FX when desired (wah, phaser speed, delay time or feedback, etc.), or even multiple parameters at the same time.

As for the comments about 'feel', pretty much any treadle can be repurposed as an expression pedal (though for VPs that don't have a passive mode, it would need some mods), and on most modellers you can adjust the sweep however you want, so don't let comments about feel/sweep deter you. Another potential advantage is that you avoid any tone suck from a passive VP pedal, which is not necessarily good or bad - some prefer the darkening of the tone, and some will use a buffer regardless - but it is a factor to keep in mind.

Bottom line, though - give it a try and report back on the results!

[Cappone dAngelo]

I tried one of the Kemper pedals but went back to the goodrich. the kemper pedals just don't have the feel I need for pedal steel

Sure - but you don't have to use the Kemper pedal do you? If your Goodrich is passive, did you try using it at an expression pedal?

I use Fractal as a modeller, and have used many different expression pedals and regular passive volume pedals (but connected as an expression pedal) with it and they all worked just fine, since the curve, offset, and shape of the sweep are all adjustable in the Fractal unit, and can even be changed for different presets which can be useful if you're placing it after other FX that affect the gain staging. That said, I do prefer a shorter throw, low tension pedal for wah and for fast volume swells, but prefer a longer throw expression pedal with higher tension for most other uses - and on my larger 6-string board I have one of each, as well as 2 micro-expression pedals for controlling things like wet-dry mix and master volume where I am using it just to tweak a setting up or down and then leaving it (not constantly riding it).

[Cappone dAngelo]

If nothing else, it would be pretty easy to put a 10k pot in a Goodrich pedal and rewire it as an expression pedal. Heck, it might be fine with the 500k pot, in which case you could just rewire one the two output jacks to be an expression jack. Though you'd still be dealing with the joys of string activation type pedals.

Agreed- depending on the modeller a 500k may work just fine - i.e., if it can be calibrated sufficiently.

And although re-wiring for a dedicated expression jack is likely the cleanest solution (and many volume pedals already come with an expression jack these days - including some Fenders, Dunlops, Fractal, Hotone ...), it can be otherwise used with cabling that splits the TRS/TS (depending on the device ...) modeller-end connection into 2 separate TS jacks (one into the input of the volume pedal, one from the output).