Making a Horseshoe Magnet

[Michael Kiese]

Hey Ian,

Glad to be of help!

Looks like we all are burning the midnight oil, lol.

Rickenbacher sells Bass Horse Shoe Pickups on their website for $200.
https://boutique.rickenbacker.com

Lindy charges $125 per coil for a pickup rewind.
https://www.fralinpickups.com/resources ... s-repairs/

I don't know how much Jerry Sentell charges for his services, but weigh your options.

$200 for a name brand pickup is pretty cheap by today's standards. As much as I don't like how Rickenbacker practiced lawfare by going after Rick and Jason Lollar despite their patent being in the public domain...it may just be easiest to get a new drop in replacement.

Good luck!

[Rick Aiello]

Those on the RIC site are “fauxs” … not magnets, just chromed mild steel …

Lollar sells real ones for bass … https://www.lollarguitars.com/lollar-ba ... eshoe-bass

[Michael Kiese]

Those on the RIC site are “fauxs” … not magnets, just chromed mild steel …

Lollar sells real ones for bass … https://www.lollarguitars.com/lollar-ba ... eshoe-bass

MAN! Are you serious!? WOW. How disappointing!

Thank you so much Rick, I have learned so much in this thread from your contributions. I had no idea.

What the heck is wrong with Rickenbacker?

That's horrible. That is seriously the last nail in the coffin for me. Modern day Rickenbacker is just a horribly run company.

Thank you for going the fire of dealing with all that nonsense, and for still being willing to share your knowledge.

[Michael Kiese]

Rick,

I had an idea... Would attaching a small neodymium magnet to the inside bend of the Horse shoe magnet increase the output of the outer strings?

I noticed that the tips of horse shoe magnets have the highest gauss rating, and the inside bend of the "U" of the horseshoe has the lowest gauss rating.

My most common issue across horseshoe pickups is the 1st string (top string) tends to be lower in output. Only ONE of my Ricky's (my ACE) has a very nice and strong output for the first string.

This could be a really easy and cheap fix for a common problem. Tiny neodymium magnets are cheap and widely available on Amazon.

[Rick Aiello]

NIBs are funny … super strong but the lines of force are drawn so tight to the poles , they don’t “spread out” as much alnico or ferrite.

So they need to be close enough to the string to really magnetize it … but then it’s so close it alters the string’s vibration ….

Using them in conjunction with steel is best …

[Michael Kiese]

NIBs are funny … super strong but the lines of force are drawn so tight to the poles , they don’t “spread out” as much alnico or ferrite.

So they need to be close enough to the string to really magnetize it … but then it’s so close it alters the string’s vibration ….

Using them in conjunction with steel is best …

Gotcha, so NIB magnets would not work well for my intended purpose.

how about if I attached a couple of small blanks of Alnico mags near the string I want to increase in output? There are various cheap options on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/X-bet-MAGNET-Cra ... =8-18&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Polepiece ... 105&sr=8-8

[Rick Aiello]

Worth a try …

One time, a guy sent me the three horseshoe pickups from an 8-10-8 string Ricky console…

After I got them all apart I noticed that all three upper/inside flanges had a quarter sized ferrite magnet milled into the steel. It must have been in a bar shape—->milled and the ferrite was epoxied in —-> bent.

Didn’t work very well … the ferrite didn’t feed all the strings … my suspicion is that they were intended for the two strings of a bass …

I’ve made various neodymium / steel based magnet arrays …. And built pickups around them … you never really know if something works until you try …

[Harry Sheppard]

Not that it would recommend it but I have successfully increased the output of a weak sounding string by simply super gluing a small, plain steel washer on top of the pole piece. The washers are slightly larger than the diameter of the pole piece and very thin. It has the same effect as raising the pole piece and the added diameter of the washer sitting under the string beefs up the tone. If you are careful with the glue, you can easily remove it so it is not a permanent modification. It would also depend on the shape of the pole pieces. Some have flat tops, some have angled tops. Some pole pieces are flush to the top of the bobbin, some are staggered low to high and I have even seen some that are filed below the top of the bobbin in slots.

[Michael Kiese]

Not that it would recommend it but I have successfully increased the output of a weak sounding string by simply super gluing a small, plain steel washer on top of the pole piece. The washers are slightly larger than the diameter of the pole piece and very thin. It has the same effect as raising the pole piece and the added diameter of the washer sitting under the string beefs up the tone. If you are careful with the glue, you can easily remove it so it is not a permanent modification. It would also depend on the shape of the pole pieces. Some have flat tops, some have angled tops. Some pole pieces are flush to the top of the bobbin, some are staggered low to high and I have even seen some that are filed below the top of the bobbin in slots.

Aloha Harry,

That's a GREAT suggestion, thank you so much! I didn't consider that as an option until you mentioned it.

I was considering filing DOWN the polepieces on strings 2 & 3. It's a subtractive process that is permanent. I quite like the response of strings 2 & 3, so I was hesitant to do that.

But ADDING height to polepiece 1 with a small steel washer, that's an ADDITIVE process that is NOT permanent is something that I didn't consider. That's definitely a better COA. I bet I could use hide glue rather than super glue. It's easier to work with and more easily removable than super glue.

So now I have a modified COA of raising the polepiece AND experimenting with adding an alnico magnet to the inside of the horseshoe proximal to the string I want to boost in output. Both options are pragmatic, fairly easy to do, and non-permanent.

Now that I think about it, if I can't find a steel washer, I could find a steel nail with a similar diameter of the polepiece, and cut off a portion of it and fashion it to desired size/length. Hopefully I can try both the washer and the nail idea and see which works better.

Maybe I could even use the Head of a steel nail...

Thanks Rick and thanks Harry! I'm sure glad that you guys responded and chimed in. Great information and suggestions!

[Michael Kiese]

Hello one and all!

I'm happy to report that "Rick's Trick" worked!

I purchased a set of 6 small N52 NeoDymium bars on Amazon for $12 incl shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D3ZY3Q18?re ... title&th=1

I took 'em out of the package, lined them up side by side, and attached them to the inside of my A25 horseshoe. Rubbed them round as best I could, and removed each NeoDymium bar one by one. All I had to do was increase the pickup height to provide extra space between the top of the strings and the magnet.

Now my 1st string's volume output is as loud and present as I need it to be.

Mahalo Nui Rick for sharing that tip! I didn't even have to disassemble the steel!

(btw I would have purchased the magnet you recommended, it was $3 but they wanted to charge $25 USPS priority shipping...)

[Michael Kiese]

I also tried Harry's trick, which was adding metal material to lengthen pole piece #1.

I took a steel fashioning nail and snipped off the head. I gingerly placed it on the steel (it wasn't perfect placement).

That said, it did increase volume output of string 1 as well.

Both methods work. One is just much more easily done than the other.

I'd have to disassemble the entire pickup and properly shave down the nailhead and glue it to the pole piece.

Given that the N52 Neodymium mags alone solved my issue, I didn't have to resort to disassembling the pickup.

Thank you Rick and Harry for providing such valuable and pragmatic Courses of Action! Both COA's are definitely going into my toolbox.

[Jean Vanhees]

@Michael,

Hello Michael, which gauss meter do you have to measure the magnetic flux of the pickups?
I see Rick is talking from 150 to 350 gauss?
I don't have a gauss meter but use an app in android called 'Gauss Meter' from Keuwlsoft.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... r&hl=en-US
Being sure in the preferences of the app that the unit is set to Gauss i never get higher then 31 gauss for the original Rickenbacher NS lapsteel from 1948 to the ones i magnetise myself at 28 Gauss.
So there must be something off, but that is not a big deal because i can measure the difference even if the reference is not correct.

Another question, you say your ACE rickenbacher is sounding so good, do you have a picture of that lapsteel, because i never heard of that type.

Have a nice day.
Jean

[Rick Aiello]

When I bought my gauss meter 25 yrs ago … they were very $$$

Now you can get a nice one for under $100

https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-0-2400m ... 9498&psc=1

Here’s one of my Academy’s and my Blue Ace … same steel, one just has a Bakelite cover over the horseshoes (why ??? … )

IMG_1089.jpeg

IMG_1090.jpeg

PS. That’s one of Jerry Byrd’s “Aloha” shirts in the background … JB was selling them off at an Aloha International convention and a buddy of mine bought it and gave it to me … here it is :

https://youtu.be/vpbna18cx9Q?si=5Q-ML_iEUsjFQvip

[Michael Kiese]

@Michael,

Hello Michael, which gauss meter do you have to measure the magnetic flux of the pickups?

Aloha Jean,

This is the exact Gauss meter I purchased on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DCN3Z2G?re ... tle_1&th=1

Another question, you say your ACE rickenbacher is sounding so good, do you have a picture of that lapsteel, because i never heard of that type.

Have a nice day.
Jean

If you go to my profile and click on my website, you'll see me posing with my hula dancer and uke player. I have my ACE in my lap.

I see that Rick also answered your question. We are in alignment. My Gauss meter looks very similar to the one Rick linked, and so does my ACE.

Here's a little tip: try to look for an ACE that doesn't have the pickup covered. The ones with the covers make it impossible to do muting effects with your right hand.

The ACE's were the "student" models of the old Rickenbachers, but they sound just as good as the Bakelites, because the ACEs are made with Bakelite as well.

Just goes to show "judge with your ears, not your pocketbook".

If I remember correctly, the "Academy" versions of the ACE were marketed as the more upscale ACEs. But Rick would know better than me.

If you can find an ACE at a good price (anything lower than a Bakelite price), scoop it up. Most people shy away from ACEs because they were marketed as "student models". I personally LOVE mine just as much as any of my bakelites and my frypans.

The best part of using my ACE as my gigging guitar is that it's not as iconic and expensive as the bakelites and Frypans, so I worry less about it getting stolen. But sadly, the prices of all steels have been going through the roof since Covid hit. Hopefully the used instrument market starts cooling off and we'll see prices start falling. One can hope anyways.

[Michael Kiese]

Here’s one of my Academy’s and my Blue Ace … same steel, one just has a Bakelite cover over the horseshoes (why ??? … )

Lol, EXACTLY!!! WHY??? lol. That pickup cover serves no purpose. Just makes it more of a pain to string up the guitar, and it gets in the way of right hand muting directly on the bridge.

PS. That’s one of Jerry Byrd’s “Aloha” shirts in the background … JB was selling them off at an Aloha International convention and a buddy of mine bought it and gave it to me … here it is :

https://youtu.be/vpbna18cx9Q?si=5Q-ML_iEUsjFQvip

Cool Jerry Byrd Aloha shirt! Maybe Jerry's mana is still present and blessing all your steel guitars. lol.

What brand Aloha Shirt is it? Just curious. Is it a Tori Richard?

[Rick Aiello]

IMG_1093.jpeg

You can see his initials in the lower left … very cool present from my friend Doug Smith …

As far as the Ace/Academy steels … I always said, best kept secret in steel guitars …

Here’s the scoop from the Rickenbacker book by Richard Smith …

IMG_1091.jpeg

The problem with the cover, besides the right hand obstruction … is that some of the 1.25”-ers have been harvested … and replaced with a conventional pickup … so get up under there with a flashlight to see if the horseshoes are there before buying …

Interestingly, there are a steels without a hand rest , with an Ace sticker on them … don’t know the full story behind the transition from Academy to Ace and the whole handrest deal … bad decision corrected ???

[Michael Kiese]

MAMO!!! That's OLLLLLD SCHOOOOLLLL!!! I love it. That Logo hits me with nostalgia.

My Dad had a bunch of Tori Richards and Mamo Howell Aloha Shirts. Both are considered high class name brands. I know Tori Richards are still in business. Look up how much one of their shirts cost today. $100 is the low end for a new Tori Richards Aloha Shirt.

Regarding the ACEs with the pup covers, great tip! I had never thought that the horseshoes could be mined off of them. Makes sense to check first before you buy.

My ACE looks exactly like your Academy, it even has the same vintage slotted tuners, which I love. Makes them VERY practical and pragmatic gigging instruments. Real quick and easy to change strings in an emergency.

[Jean Vanhees]

Thanks you both, Rick and Mike.