Vestapol in G possible ?

[Brooks Montgomery]

I’m sure it has come up here, but searching I couldn’t find it:

Has anyone come up with the string gauges to play dobro in G vestapol (1-5-1-3-5-1) ?

I’m aware of open G and “bluegrass” G tunings, and I realize it would take an unorthodox string set to have G with 1-5-1-3-5-1 .

[Mike Neer]

Drew Glackin used to play in that tuning and when I subbed for him I played in a band that had a few tunes where his recorded tracks relied heavily on that tuning. It’s not that difficult to tune a 1st string up to G, just use an .011 or.012.

Oh, but you want acoustic. Might be a little thin sounding, but depending on the scale of the instrument, that’s how you would select. Use the John Ely string gauge chart, which someone will link in 3, 2, 1…..

[Brooks Montgomery]

Yeh, thanks Mike. Yes, acoustic, but both my dobro and weissie I play amplified, so thin strings might still work.

[Dave Mudgett]

I have a couple of cheap Jackson electric 7-string guitars with a 26.5 scale that I use for extended slide guitar tunings. One of them is tuned to D2 G2 D3 G3 B3 D4 G4, lo-hi, i.e., 5 1 5 1 3 5 1, your tuning with the extra 5 on the bottom. The only issue is the top string G4, which requires a bit special treatment due to the hardtail strat-style bridge, which tends to cut the string as it comes out of the string-through-body hole en route to the bridge saddle. So I use some very narrow neoprene tubing (think SRV) to cushion the string up to the bridge saddle, and an 11p string works fine. I calculate 33 pounds tension on that string, and I suspect I could get away with an 11.5 (~36 pounds) or even a 12 (~39 pounds). And this is a 26.5" scale length.

Given a typical 25" resonator scale length, combined with the typical resonator tailpiece that doesn't crimp the string like a hardtail strat bridge does, I would think one could go heavier even. Tension on 11p is < 30lb, 11.5 around 32lb, 12 around 35 lb, and 13 around 41lb. I imagine 13 would be pushing it, but 11-12 should pose no problem, as long as there isn't something cutting at the string.

Scale length matters a lot. I never had any problem going high A Vestapol on a 22.5" scale lap steel like a Ricky B6. A4 at 22.5" gives around 29lb for 11p, ~33lb for 11.5p, and 36lb for 12p. Again, assuming nothing is cutting the string. And if something is cutting the string, the neoprene tubing seems to work pretty well. Somebody just revived an old thread about David Lindley tuning his B6 high A for Running On Empty, which is how I hear it. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12987 In fact, I asked him about that when I had a chance to talk after a show around 2007 or so. It can be done.

Ha, I don't use John's string gauge chart. I have some wildly varying scale lengths, so I use the stringjoy string tension calculator here - https://tension.stringjoy.com/ - this calculator accounts for scale length.

I get some strange looks when I show up at a gig with a Jackson heavy metal 7-string, LOL. In black with black headstock, black hardware, and black pickup covers.

[Rich Ertelt]

You probably don't want to increase the string tension too much on an acoustic. On a lap steel, which is basically a 2x4, it wouldn't matter as much, but on an acoustic it could be an issue.

Use a string tension calculator, there are several you can search for, here is one.
https://tension.stringjoy.com/

Try to get the tension around where it is now.

On pedal steel, the high G# is an 11 or 12.

You can also look at C6 tuning strings, the C6 with the G on top, to see the gauge, but again, those would be for lap/console so maybe a little too big for an acoustic

[Brad Bechtel]

Personally I'd tune to open E and capo at the third fret.

[Brooks Montgomery]

Personally I'd tune to open E and capo at the third fret.

Yes, that would be more logical, but this is for a second guitar. The group I play in I play open D, and of course can capo 2 for E, which is great for blues and other stuff I do. And of course all the closed positions up and down the neck.

For G (and A I would capo 2) songs where I might want open strings on some stuff, I’d like this guitar in G. I learned on ‘bluegrass G’ , but vestapol has become a very comfortable pair of shoes for me, and I want to stay in them, and this would be my Idaho-tech version (avoiding polish references) of having Hip shot D to G (without the flick of a lever). Might not work out…..but might work….?
Thanks all for suggestions.

[Dave Mudgett]

The string tension for a standard 25" scale length squareneck resonator lo-hi GBDGBD with a typical resonator set - e.g., D'Addario EJ42 with gauges hi-lo 16, 18p, 28w, 35, 45, 56 - comes out to around 35, 31, 42, 33, 43, 42 pounds, respectively, or around 225 pounds total. This is a lot more tension than typically seen on a roundneck acoustic with medium-gauge 13-56 strings in standard guitar tuning, which typically is in the range of 180-190 pounds total, i.e., around 30 pounds per string. Squareneck resonators routinely handle a lot of tension.

I tacitly assumed you were talking about a squareneck resonator. If that is the case, I don't see why one couldn't do what you're trying to do, as long as you can keep the high G4 from breaking. And even on a roundneck resonator, one can keep the overall tension in the typical roundneck acoustic guitar range by keeping the lower strings down at the typical 30 pounds per string most roundneck acoustics operate at.

You can figure this out very quickly by simply trying, let's say, an 11, 11.5, or 12 at G4. If that works and sounds OK, I don't see any problem doing this at all.

I understand the rationale for wanting Vestapol 151351 and Robert Johnson-style 515135 in one's aresenal. I use them quite a bit and significantly prefer them for more bluesy stuff, either slide or lap. I use them on my Beard Odyssey, and use the more typical GBDGBD for more bluegrass/country stuff on a squareneck resonator. In fact, my experience with that 7-string in that extended G-Vestapol tempts me to try high-G Vestapol on the Odyssey. I'll report back if/when I do that.

[Brooks Montgomery]

Yes, thanks Dave, squareneck. I should have mentioned that earlier.

[Fred]

I would just use a standard Dobro set and get rid of the 5th string, move 1 through four over and add a lighter string for the high G.

[Brooks Montgomery]

I would just use a standard Dobro set and get rid of the 5th string, move 1 through four over and add a lighter string for the high G.

Good idea Fred. I think that will work.

[Brooks Montgomery]

I would just use a standard Dobro set and get rid of the 5th string, move 1 through four over and add a lighter string for the high G.

Good idea Fred. I think that will work.

Update: I tried Fred’s idea, and it works quite well.
Standard dobro set 16-56. Omitted the fifth string, shifted strings 1,2,3, & 4 up one. Added a .012 for the first string. Low to high GDGBDG.
The 1st string (G) is pretty ice-pick bright, but works. This will be a nice addition to my main dobro tuned to D: DADF#AD . Using a capo on the first couple frets of either guitar will give me the option of open strings for quite a bit of stuff.

Thanks all for the suggestions and consideration.

And hey, moderators, good job on the new format.