Playing a 12 String lap steel using an E13th tuning

[Melody Freeman]

Does the E13th tuning help by not having to bend as many strings and twisting the bar around when playing a lap steel? If so, how does it help with that? What are the actual names of the strings?

[Joe A. Roberts]

Zane Beck tuned his 12 string E13th with pedals as:
G#
F#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
B
G#
E
B
Which wouldn’t be a bad non pedal tuning either.

Tommy Morrell played 10 string E13th non pedal:
G#
F#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
E

[Melody Freeman]

Joe A. Roberts, will the 12 string version work for the Western Swing Genre as well? I was also wondering if you have to do as much bending behind the bar and twisting of the bar different ways with that tuning?

[Joe A. Roberts]

That should be just about one of the best tunings for any kind of music, but especially western swing.

I never got comfortable doing the behind the bar bends myself, and a lot of the best players of the past never used that technique either.
As far as slants go, they would not hurt but are not necessary. They say Don Helms almost never played using slants.
I think it would be useful to learn some basic slants (scales in thirds, and also sixths, for example).
It might be harder to slant on 12 strings if the strings are closer together, but probably still doable.

[Melody Freeman]

Thank you for the information, Joe.

[J D Sauser]

so called "6th"-tunings generate Major and minor chords (without pedals and/or levers)... but have NO Tri-Tone interval. Dominant and m7b5 chords are thus not present without pedals and/or levers.
"13th" (6th in the upper structure) implies that there is a b7th somewhere in it (D in the case of an E13th) which generates a Tri-Tone with the M3rd (G# of E). Dominant 7th and min7b5 now are present too without pedals and levers.
It creates "un-even" chord grips but I think it's superior for above reasoning.

... J-D.

[Melody Freeman]

J D,

Thank you for the information. I’ve seen a few different copedents for the E13th tuning. I didn’t see one that has the flatted 5 or the Tritone for key of E (Bb), as being an open string in order to not need pedals and knee levers to produce that note. What E13th tuning do you use? Thanks for your time.

Musically,
Melody

[J D Sauser]

J D,

Thank you for the information. I’ve seen a few different copedents for the E13th tuning. I didn’t see one that has the flatted 5 or the Tritone for key of E (Bb), as being an open string in order to not need pedals and knee levers to produce that note. What E13th tuning do you use? Thanks for your time.

Musically,
Melody

A dominant chord can substitute for a min7b5. The root of the m7b7 will be the M3rd of the Dominant:

Dm7b5 will start (be rooted) at the M3rd of Bb7th. The TriTone occurs between the root and the flattened 5th of the minor7b5.
C6th pedal players think 8th-string rooted minor (Dm7 at the 5th fret, and flatten it's 5th by hitting P6 which would typically form a Bb7th rooted at the 9th string on the same fret.

... J-D.

[Melody Freeman]

J D,

Thanks for the info. On piano, I enjoy playing some jazz chords and enjoy Music Theory. I understand what you are referring to when you have the Bb7: Bb D F Ab, then use the 3rd of Bb being D, and then the notes for the Dm7 b5 are: D F Ab C, and the TriTone is D Ab. So basically, the Dm7 b5 excluding the Bb, is the same as a Bb9.

As far as the C6, I have just been playing an E9 and then have recently been trying a 12 string with 4 & 4. I have a 12 string ordered and it will have 8 pedals and 7 knee levers. When I get the one that is ordered, which is set up with an E9/B6 copedent, I will give that a try. I have been curious about the E13th tuning, as I have studied some information on that. Thanks again, I appreciate learning all that I can!

[Jesse Harris]

come join us!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/828184217604139/

[Melody Freeman]

Jesse, thank you.

[Tom Cooper]

Hi Melody. I am a E13 ten string player. I use basically the Morrell tuning except with F# on top and B as lowest. I committed to this tuning on single 10 some time ago and it has served me well. There is always going to be some bar slant and movement needed in any tuning I think. My other fav is A6, really love that one, but for single tuning E13 won out. Vance Terry, Morrell, Hank Sr stuff. Wanted that high bright snappy sound. A6 is so tough and fat sounding also. Love them both. A6 may be a bit easier I would imagine. E13 has some strings to avoid when not needed. It's great though. Very useful.

[Melody Freeman]

Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for the info! I think for now, I should study the E9/B6 tuning more, and go from there. Thanks again!