Return Spring recommendations etc.

[Jake Sulzer]

Howdy all! I recently bought an MSA Classic XL and am in the process of setting up the C6 neck with a standard copedent. However, I've been running into the "Lower starts lowering and then raises" problem especially with my low C Boo-wah which I have on P9. I replaced the spring with a lighter gauge, but I think I overcompensated because now it a) doesn't lower enough and b) doesn't return properly. Does anyone have any recommendations for return springs that are well suited for both raise and lower fingers or any other troubleshooting ideas?

Cheers!

[Jim Palenscar]

With the early MSA's the return springs were too stiff. While you can try lighter gauge springs or stretch out the springs a titch I generally can work with the springs on the guitar by only utilizing the lowering holes furthest from the changer axle.

[Jake Sulzer]

Right on, thanks Jim. Should I move the pull rod collar up on the bell crank to create more distance?

[Jim Palenscar]

Yes you can do that w the caveat that the change becomes stiffer- an alternative is to increase the travel.

[Jake Sulzer]

Rod or pedal travel? I haven't tried adjusting either yet.

[Jim Palenscar]

Not the pedal rod- the stop on the pedal or lever needs to be backed off a bit to allow for more travel.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Watch the changer raise bar on the problem string, If the raise bar pulls off the stop bar, During the lower. The spring is the problem. The spring needs enough tension to hold the lower bar on the stop, During a raise, But stretch enough for the longest lower.

Till you get the spring adjusted with proper tension and travel with enough travel, You are chasing the problem in a circle.

I chased the same problem on a MSA classic, When I got a proper strength spring and length right, It lowered perfect. It was Buddy Emmons C6th tuning. 10th string 8th pedal C lower to A.

I joked with a steeler friend, Do I get my WIZARD OF STEEL WAND now.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I replace all of the springs on both of my MSA's with springs from Ace Hardware. Same diameter, but a little lighter. The lowering action is much smoother.

[Jake Sulzer]

Watch the changer raise bar on the problem string, If the raise bar pulls off the stop bar, During the lower. The spring is the problem. The spring needs enough tension to hold the lower bar on the stop, During a raise, But stretch enough for the longest lower.

Till you get the spring adjusted with proper tension and travel with enough travel, You are chasing the problem in a circle.

I chased the same problem on a MSA classic, When I got a proper strength spring and length right, It lowered perfect. It was Buddy Emmons C6th tuning. 10th string 8th pedal C lower to A.

I joked with a steeler friend, Do I get my WIZARD OF STEEL WAND now.

Yeah this is the issue. Well, I guess I gotta find me some springs!

[Dennis Detweiler]

There is no spring tension adjustment on the old MSA's. You have to clip a few windings from the spring and reattach it. Then try the pull again and watch for any lift. It's a tedious job and requires needle nose and regular pliers along with some good wire clippers. The springs I purchased from Ace Hardware are a little lighter (not as stiff) and require a little shorter spring and stretched a little more than the old ones. The slightly lighter springs will pull farther with less effort. Those old tight and heavy MSA springs are hard to stretch from the very beginning of the pull. With the proper adjustments in linkage and a lighter springs, both of my guitars pedals and knee levers work like butter. My universal 12 tuning pulls the 9th string B to D and raises my 2nd string C# to D# with ease and accuracy. The 12th string B goes down to G# with no problems and is accurate. All stops on all pedals and knee levers work as they should and better than factory.

[Bobby D. Jones]

When a lower does not lower proper and the Raise lever is pulling off the stop bar. You need a longer spring or lighter spring.
Good Luck Those dang return springs are about the hardest thing I have worked on, Dealing with setting up a steel.