Asking Advice on learning direction.

Gerald K. Robbins · From: South Coast Oregon, USA

Hi,
New to playing steel. Lots of years with banjo.
Want to learn C-6th tuning, but that may be too much.

Now have Weissenborn, in D, DIY lap steel in C-6th, borrowed Gretch Boxcar, also D,
and a "jo-bro", now tuned GBD,GBD, as in do-bro. It was in D.

However much i want to learn C-6th, it just makes me wonder. Very foreign.

The Weisenborn sounds great, but I can only play in D, and there is still so much that is new.

The Do-bro tuning fits what i know. I don't understand why it took so long to try using that tuning with a slide.

So I am asking if anyone else started with Do-bro or banjo, and then learned C-6th. And or E-9th ?

And, how to go about it. All at once: .or study GBD-GBD with slide, (learn slide), then open D, with slide.
and then anything else ?

I have invested in a reverb and VP for the lap steel. Took the string benders off.

Any learning advice will be carefully considered. Thanks in advance.

bkentr

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Hey Gerald

There is no need to put a hyphen in Dobro, C6th or E9th.

Simple tunings like D tuning and G tuning are easy to get started on because it is tuned to a major chord. Any string sounds good. The downside is the limitations: there are no b3rds or 7ths so no minor chords or 7th chords in straight bar position. People get around this by 1. playing slants, 2. Just not playing 3rds, stick to the root and 5th and let someone else play the flatted third, 3. or by just playing single notes.

A 6th tuning will give you the ability to play minor chords which adds a lot to your harmony playing. It is certainly no harder to learn to play C6 than it is to learn slants. However, C6 is in a much higher register than G tuning or D tuning which some don't like. Often it comes down to: what kind of music do you want to play: hard driving Jerry Douglas style bluegrass, David Lindley style rock? Jerry Byrd style Hawaiian? Don Helms style country?

And then we have pedals. I started playing steel back in the 90's on a dobro. Played dobro for decades. Moved to lap steel, where I played 10 and 12 string tunings and now I'm playing a D12 Pedal Steel, with extended E9 and C6 tunings on two necks.

All have their place. Sometimes it is great to play something simple like a six string lap steel. Sometimes it is great to play something much more interesting and complex, like an extended E9th tuning with 5 pedals and 5 knee levers.

No one can really say which is right for you. If you are like most people, you'll experiment with lots of tunings and steels during your journey.

Only thing that really matters: have fun.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

First, I’ll echo what Bill said. It is good advice—especially the part about having fun.

I’ll add that you need to consider your learning style preferences. Are you an experimenter that prefers to discover things on your own? Do you like to learn from teachers one to one? Do you like learning by watching others play (YouTube)? Do you get bored easily? Frustrated easily? Like learning from books, tabs, or charts?

All of the above will influence your learning progress. It’s helpful to know yourself well enough to avoid trying to learn lap steel in a way that will lead you to putting it down and walking away.

Speaking for myself, I like having at least two lap steels out all the time. One in Open D, because it’s always just plain fun to play, and another in a more complicated tuning to push myself out of my comfort zone and explore new approaches.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D9 – D A D F♯ A C E
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database

Gerald K. Robbins · From: South Coast Oregon, USA

Thank you Bill and Allan,
It is very helpful to read your replies. Helps to focus on what I'm trying to do, taking up yet another way to play music.

First lesson, Have fun learning, and playing. And yes, that happens at times.
In addition, music, playing music, and learning new ways to do so is Great therapy.

Every journey starts somewhere. The "steel" journey has just started for me. Lots of choices today with the net.

As to what to play/learn ?
I love to hear Jerry Douglas, but true BG might be too much drive for my playing. BG influence ? Yes.
Byrd and Hawaiian ? A big yes, thats what makes me want to learn C6th.
Speedy ? Yes. Western Swing ,Yes. Any old tune I can remember and "work it out" on whatever I have to play ? Yes.

My main music interests lean toward blues, folk, old country, some older rock, gospel and original home built songs.
Now I will add Hawaiian and pedal steel. Old hymns on pedal steel really grabbed my attention

As to how I learn best ?
Your reply has caused me to think back on how and what I have learned so far.

Most has been experimenting and finding the notes and tunes by ear. Then comes books/DVD's and watching others play.
Private lessons have not worked as well. Playing along with others that stretch my ability also works , but it is sometimes hard
to find others, that are better players, who will take the time to "put up' with those not up to speed.

Thinking back, I now see that almost 80% of my time with music has been experimenting.
Lots of that time was spent tinkering with, assembling, and building banjos. That has been the most fun for me.
The start of that journey was the back of Earl's book, "Build your own decoritive banjo". Got that book In 1988.
I have thought I should have spent that time learning to play, but it's too late now to be somebody else.

Thanks again for your replies. They will encourage my"steel" journey to continue as started, Including;

Wessenborn in D, Jobro in high base G, lap steel in C6th, with reverb and VP, no matter how odd it seems now.
Considering another 8 string lap for C6th, and a permenent Dobro. I'll leave any thought of pedal alone for now.

Will also continue to cross learn what i know on banjo to steel, and translate what I can pick up on steel back to banjo, if possible.
Will also work on learning the same parts in D,G, and C6th on steel.
Will use U-tube vidios where available.

kentr

Joe A. Roberts · From: Seoul, South Korea

Gerald, it sounds like steel guitar is the perfect instrument for you.
It works beautifully in all the genres you said you like.

You are probably comfortable with finger picks coming from banjo (this is a HUGE hurdle for a lot of beginners)
You say you learn primarily from experimentation... I am sure you will love experimenting with tunings, that is a huge part of the magic of the instrument for me.

I think you are fortunate to have those instruments right at the start of your steel journey to help you figure out what you like.
I really think half the battle of learning to play in a tuning is having an instrument around tuned to it!
That is why I like having a three neck, any time I sit down to play other tunings are at arms reach to mess with. Sure beats having to retune all the time.

One thing about your chosen tunings, D, G, and C6th, is they are by far the most commonly taught and have the most songs tabbed out, in books, free online, etc.
Once you get beyond those tunings, there are practically exponentially fewer materials and resources.

Gerald K. Robbins · From: South Coast Oregon, USA

Hi Joe,
What a hoot to hear back from someone in S,Korea.

While I have heard steel, and pedal steel, in songs for many years, this is the first time I've tried to learn how to play them.

All the experimenting with banjo has led to having around a dozen banjos hanging on the walls.
And out in the shop. And burried in the closet. And some passed along, sold, or scrapped.
I even used one for firewood. And I've met some folks that think that's where they all belong.

Is that the way "steel" is heading for me also?

Sometimes different tunings have been a challenge, confusion being the end result.
As an example, I once built a neck with 5 extra frets,after seeing a picture of one like that in a banjo repair book,
Then I found out that the pearl was not in the same place for the different keys, which led to finding the wrong notes
on a standard neck that I had been used to. But the pearl was right for the long neck.

While I'm starting to see that happen again on steel with different tunings, I remember that more time spent using
the different tunings helps clear up the confusion.

the availability of vidios and lessons for D, G, and C6th was the contributing factor in chosing those tunings to start.

bkentr

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

Gerald, after reading your replies I think we all know where you’re heading. Just accept your destiny and start making space for more lap steels. I mean, why change the tuning on one lap steel when you can just get another one to try another tuning on?
Laughing

_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D9 – D A D F♯ A C E
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database

Gerald K. Robbins · From: South Coast Oregon, USA

Is it that clear?

that is the way the banjos went.

And then there are small "side trips" like yesterdays.

A friend had me fix an old banjo for him, and paid me with another old tenor banjo.
I tried an Irish tuning, an octave down from mandolin, and just did not enjoy finding the notes.
Then seeing a post on an octave uku, tried that'

That turned out to be one of the few times random experimentation delivered something good.
It does sound good, my wife likes the sound, it's fun to play, and I've had ukus and uku chord books around for a while.

Also, this old octave uku still sounds great with a "capo on the second fret" raising it to D.
Since D works for many songs,with and without voice, that is a popular key around this house;

The weissenborn is in D, lots of banjos capoed to A, play C for D, including an Ovation now a banjatar,
D-tuners on the Bowtie , straight D cord out of G on banjo, Capo up to a high D for banjo.
and finally, a Pete Seeger styled longneck with heavy strings and tuned to open low D.

So why bring all that up on a steel forum?
Because once I found a simple progression on the uku,in D, i went back to the jobro and tried to play the
same thing with the slide.
Causing me to learn to play in D with the slide tuned to GBDGBD.

Yes, it might look like there might be another steel showing up around here.

bkentr

Joe A. Roberts · From: Seoul, South Korea

Gerald, one good book I highly recommend is Stacy Phillips "Complete Dobro Player" if you work through a bit of that book, it should really help you get more comfortable playing keys outside of the tuning's home key.
Especially closely related keys like D.
As far as good resources go, any Stacy Phillips book is really worth checking out IMO...

Your tenor banjo story is very interesting...
I have never heard of that octave ukulele tuning for banjo. Is the bottom string a smaller re-entrant string like on ukulele?

Speaking of weird tunings, I just bought this no-name ukulele on reverb to mess with. It is a six string, but not like a guitar.
It is the normal ukulele tuning, but:
1. the C string is doubled up with a skinny, high C string that is now the highest pitched string on the instrument.
2. the A string is doubled up with a wound low A string, which is now the lowest pitched string on the instrument. weird!

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I agree with the Stacey Phillips dobro books as excellent resources. You could also not go wrong with Troy Brenningmeyer’s YouTube lessons.

My advice would be to settle on one instrument and one tuning for at least six months, and try to get inside a few of the possibilities it has to offer. Even the GBDGBD dobro has plenty of magic in it if you give it a chance. It is certainly not limited to major triads, even without slanting. It’s also great for building right and left hand technique and learning fretboard logic.

I just think flitting around amongst multiple instruments and tunings is a good way to get nowhere with any of them. So unless you are a genius like forum member Bill Hatcher, who seems to be able to make incredibly cool music on instruments with any tuning and any number of strings, I suggest focusing in on one and honing some basic skills.

Gerald K. Robbins · From: South Coast Oregon, USA

Joe & Fred,
Thanks for your replies.

Yes, the new to me old tenor banjo, now octave uku, has the re-entry G string, as I have been using that tuning for
the small ukus I have had around since forever.

That 6-string uku looks to be curly koa, a real beauty. Does it sound as good as it looks?

I have also tried out paired octave strings for banjo. The end result overdrives the sound. Better if played softly, with no picks.
As of now, only the G string is an octave, the others are just doubled. Broke lots of strings testing.

One thing I did not expect about the octave uku.
By using heavy guage strings, even the A string is wound, there is a rich, subdued, and mellow sound when played no picks,
and banjo loud when picks are used.
I am sure that a good quality normal uku sounds sweeter, but experimentation is fun.

Back to the learning steel.
Have copied down Stacy Phillips info.
Troy Brenningmeyer has many free lessons, or parts of lessons that I am watching and learning from, and many thanks to him for that.

I agree in part about keeping on one tuning for a while. It looks like C6th will take a rest. Still have an 8 string lap in planning for that.
I will continue with dobro G and open D together. Including D out of G in GBDGBD.

Will still be working to play anything learned on steel back on banjo, and the other way round.

Have also watched slide uku vidios. Won't go that way.

As I reread your replies I am reminded of the many basic music skills that I have learned over the years
by spending lots of time working on them that are transferable to the slide
Right now using the slide to do what my fingers have been doing seems a bit like trying to build a house with pick up sticks.
.
Not a pro, no intention to be. Just at home and with friends sometimes. That means no real pressure and no deadline to keep.
That does not stop me from enjoying the end result of others hard work, and being inspired to inprove my own skills.

bkentr

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