“Correct” Bar Size

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 30 Apr 2024 7:29 pm

Hey folks, quick question about bar sizes. I’ve been using the same cheap Ernie Ball bar that I picked up at my local music shop since I started playing, but I’ve started to notice a bit of pain in my index finger recently when playing. Would a longer bar help with that, or is that more of a grip issue? I think my hands are a bit on the bigger size. Here’s a couple pics for reference

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 30 Apr 2024 11:50 pm

I think the best thing to do would be to try out different bar sizes to see what works best for you. If your hand is bigger, maybe a 7/8 or 15/16 bar, or an inch bar would help. There are all kinds of bars for pedal steel now and not all of them are stainless steel or chrome. I use a polymer bar, and even though I have cerebral palsy in my left hand, I find that it works best for me. A polymer bar might solve the problem too, I think. Paul Franklin said in a video that if you're wondering about bars, try different bars on steel to find what works best for you

John Hyland · Post by **John Hyland** » 1 May 2024 1:13 am

Brett Day wrote:I think the best thing to do would be to try out different bar sizes to see what works best for you. If your hand is bigger, maybe a 7/8 or 15/16 bar, or an inch bar would help. There are all kinds of bars for pedal steel now and not all of them are stainless steel or chrome. I use a polymer bar, and even though I have cerebral palsy in my left hand, I find that it works best for me. A polymer bar might solve the problem too, I think. Paul Franklin said in a video that if you're wondering about bars, try different bars on steel to find what works best for you

That’s good advice but depending on where you are it isn’t easy to try out different types especially the more exotic types unless you go out and buy them.

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 1 May 2024 1:53 am

John Hyland wrote:
Brett Day wrote:I think the best thing to do would be to try out different bar sizes to see what works best for you. If your hand is bigger, maybe a 7/8 or 15/16 bar, or an inch bar would help. There are all kinds of bars for pedal steel now and not all of them are stainless steel or chrome. I use a polymer bar, and even though I have cerebral palsy in my left hand, I find that it works best for me. A polymer bar might solve the problem too, I think. Paul Franklin said in a video that if you're wondering about bars, try different bars on steel to find what works best for you
That’s good advice but depending on where you are it isn’t easy to try out different types especially the more exotic types under you go out and buy them.

Exactly my issue. I’d love to avoid shelling out several hundred dollars on different bars with the hopes I can resell them if they’re not the right fit.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 1 May 2024 2:23 am

See if this vid tutorial from Paul Franklin helps a little. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all answer (or one size fits all bar). Paul lays out what he considers important about bar size & grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpIBCd_WA8&t=3s

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 May 2024 4:35 am

Your bar looks to be 7/8". As that's a fairly common size, your problem sounds more like a grip issue. Are you pressing down with your index finger? (That isn't usually necessary.) I also notice in the bottom picture that it looks like you're "hooking" your finger over the end of the bar, and that's also an action that might cause fatigue if you do it constantly.

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 1 May 2024 4:51 am

Donny Hinson wrote:Your bar looks to be 7/8". As that's a fairly common size, your problem sounds more like a grip issue. Are you pressing down with your index finger? (That isn't usually necessary.) I also notice in the bottom picture that it looks like you're "hooking" your finger over the end of the bar, and that's also an action that might cause fatigue if you do it constantly.

Donny, I believe it is a standard 7/8x3.25 bar. The bottom pic was just to show the size of the bar in relation to my finger. The first pic is how the bar naturally sits in my hand in playing position. I don’t think I’m putting excess pressure on the top of the bar.

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 1 May 2024 4:58 am

Jon Light wrote:See if this vid tutorial from Paul Franklin helps a little. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all answer (or one size fits all bar). Paul lays out what he considers important about bar size & grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNpIBCd_WA8&t=3s

Jon, this video is exactly what got me thinking about this topic. The big thing I’m trying to figure out is if a 12 string bar would fit my hand better

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 1 May 2024 4:59 am

I've seen a few really good players play with their index finger hooked over the end of the bar, I can't that, or like some others (Terry Crisp, Bobbe Seymore) drupe it over the right side of the bar, and I can't do that either as it messes with what I want to be seeing when I'm looking at the relation between bar and frets.

Whatever method you're using should work. But if you're playing with tension, in an unrelaxed way you could be contributing to what you're experiencing. For me my hand is comfortable with my index finger on top of the bar with only the pad of the finger in direct contact with the bar and my finger looking like an inch worm getting ready to take a step, with the base of the bar tucked or near tucked into the pocket near that first knuckle at the palm.

OR, you may be experiencing the beginnings of a little arthritis, especially if this is a new issue for you. I knew those "Thritis" brothers and Art was the worst one

. I'm bone on bone at the base of both thumbs since 2017 and some days playing is a challenge I don't feel like meeting.

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 1 May 2024 5:22 am

Hey Dale, see my reply to Donny above. I don’t hook my finger over the bar while playing, that pic was more to show the length of the bar in relation to my hand

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 1 May 2024 5:31 am

Kendell Scott wrote:Hey Dale, see my reply to Donny above. I don’t hook my finger over the bar while playing, that pic was more to show the length of the bar in relation to my hand

Whoops

John Larson · Post by **John Larson** » 1 May 2024 7:13 am

I use a "12 string" bar for the added control at the rear of the bar. Really helps with intonation control. Sits nicely in the pocket of the hand between the index and thumb and allows the index to be flat on top of the bar applying slight pressure to the tip of the bar.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 1 May 2024 7:31 am

Tension in the hands comes from two things - bad technique and bad ergonomics. Your hand does look a bit outsized for that bar. Some players might disagree, but I think the thumb belongs on the butt end of the bar. Observing other player’ grips helped me to experiment and develop mine.

I had some problems with the bar hand when I first started playing. I think it was due to over-practicing, sitting there for hours without taking a break. Because that’s what pedal steel does to you!

Anyway, I did do some bar-hopping, as is being recommended here. My fingers are long and I eventually started playing a 12-string psg, so it made sense to try a 7/8”x3.625” (polymer) bar. I’m not sure if that made the difference as much as taking a short break in my routine every 20 minutes or so, but the pain and tension went away.

My jury is still out on the polymer bar’s tone and sustain. There is a compromise due to the difference in mass/weight from steel, but that is also part of what makes the grip somewhat easier too. Something to keep in mind if you do go for a bigger bar.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 1 May 2024 8:29 am

Maybe check to see if, when you slide bar up the strings with no pressure, is there any buzzing on a string that makes you think you need to add pressure?
There is also the tendency for some players to slide the bar into a note or notes and start out with a fast vibrato because they are note sure they hit the note.
Starting out with no vibrato and working into one, like a singer would.
Jerry Byrd used to slap my shoulder to remind me not use my shoulder, only the forearm
Searching for a bar to solve what might be a technique issue might not be the way to go.
Watch for the tension in your hand. and where it comes from.
If there's physical issues holding the bar, Hawaiian player, Billy Hew Len had a leather attachment that held his bar.

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 1 May 2024 11:09 am

Here's the bar I use

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 1 May 2024 3:06 pm

I saw your difficulty when you posted a pic a while ago. Is your picking hand affected too, Brett?

Ron Funk · Post by **Ron Funk** » 1 May 2024 3:35 pm

Kendell Scott

sent you PM my friend !

Ron

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 1 May 2024 5:00 pm

Chris Templeton wrote:I saw your difficulty when you posted a pic a while ago. Is your picking hand affected too, Brett?

No, the picking hand is normal-it's just my left hand that is affected by cerebral palsy. I've had to try out several different bars over the years, and I've found that a polymer bar works best for me. For twenty-four years, I've used stainless steel bars and they would slide around or almost fall out of my left hand, but after a visit to Emmons Guitar Company in February of 2023, I've found that polymer bars work best for me.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 1 May 2024 5:53 pm

Sounds like you get a lot of pleasure and satisfaction with what you do on steel, Brett.
As for me, having multiple sclerosis knocked my steel playing back a couple of pegs, but I'm happy with my improvement these days.

Ron Pruter · Post by **Ron Pruter** » 3 May 2024 4:05 pm

Kendal. Just pulled up your profile. Looks like you are sitting a little low in your seat. You may just need a taller seat. I'd recommend your forearms running parallel to the ground. When I started getting serious about steel guitar, my right hand used to cramp up. It just kind of toughened up and pain went away on it's own. Good luck. Ron

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 3 May 2024 4:27 pm

Interesting connection- I'll have to think about that and playing lap steel standing up, with a stand.

Andrew Goulet · Post by **Andrew Goulet** » 5 May 2024 7:22 am

You could try one of Michael Hillman's powder coated bars. I've found it sticks to my hand much better and lets me use a more relaxed grip.

Ron Pruter · Post by **Ron Pruter** » 5 May 2024 2:13 pm

I agree with Andrew

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 6 May 2024 9:05 pm

Ron Pruter wrote:Kendal. Just pulled up your profile. Looks like you are sitting a little low in your seat. You may just need a taller seat. I'd recommend your forearms running parallel to the ground. When I started getting serious about steel guitar, my right hand used to cramp up. It just kind of toughened up and pain went away on it's own. Good luck. Ron

Hey Ron, that’s definitely something I’ve been wondering about as well. Started out on a sitting on a keyboard bench and now I’ve got a used pack a seat that needs some new, thicker foam.

Kendell Scott · Post by **Kendell Scott** » 6 May 2024 9:19 pm

Ron Pruter wrote:Kendal. Just pulled up your profile. Looks like you are sitting a little low in your seat. You may just need a taller seat. I'd recommend your forearms running parallel to the ground. When I started getting serious about steel guitar, my right hand used to cramp up. It just kind of toughened up and pain went away on it's own. Good luck. Ron

Hey Ron, that’s definitely something I’ve been wondering about as well. Started out on a sitting on a keyboard bench and now I’ve got a used pack a seat that needs some new, thicker foam.