Newbie looking for advice on buying an 8-string PSG

[Alan Davidson]

I'm a newbie in this forum and to pedal steel in general. I'm looking to buy an 8-string. There is a new listing on ebay for a Fender 400 for $1300. I wonder whether any of you could give me some advice on whether it seems like a reasonably good guitar and price. Is it OK for me to post a link to the ebay listing here so people can see the guitar?

[Stew Crookes]

Posting a link is common on the forum and I've never seen anyone upset about it

I can't weigh in on the value of Fender steels in general as I'm not knowledgeable in them but can say that something like a 400 is a bit of a different instrument (musically and mechanically) from the steels that became established as the more or less 'standard' ten string E9 and C6 set-ups that exist today, which are what nearly all instruction material is geared to.

A steel like this might be the most perfect guitar for you and the music you want to make with it, but before getting into something with limited capabilities such as an 8 string cable pull guitar, I would recommend figuring out if it's going to be able to do the specific things you want a pedal steel to do.

[Bill McCloskey]

If you are a newbie, stick with the standard: 10 string E9th 3x4. This will have the most instructional material and has stood the test of time and the standard of all major players on the instrument.

[K Maul]

But he wants an 8 string. I think $1300 is too high but it is a common asking price for those things nowadays. Fenders have their own special charm and you either feel that or you don’t.

[Alan Davidson]

Thanks for the reply Steve. I do think something like that Fender would probably serve my purposes. I played violin for 45 years (but I've had to give it up because of a physical issue). So I have a pretty good grounding in music and I have a good idea of what I want to do with a PSG. I'm not terribly interested in 10 strings or E9 tuning. I have my own 8-string tuning that I really like, but I want to add some flexibility to it with some pedals (and/or knee levers). BTW, that Fender seems to have sold in about a day, so I guess that was an appealing price.

[Alan Davidson]

Bill, I'm not going to take your advice but I appreciate you taking the time to give it. BTW, I stumbled upon and watched your video a couple of months ago. We're just about the same age; I'll be turning 70 in April. And here I am learning steel guitar like you and having a blast. I don't have any pedals yet, but I'm pretty sure that's in my future.

[Tony Oresteen]

Alan,

I wanted an 8 string PSG and I looked at the Fender 400. I decided not to buy a 400 as the changer is very limited. Over the years many have been hacked up. The 400 never had knee levers from the factory. And as I understand it, you can't raise and lower the same string. The string can be raised or lowered but not both.

Have you figured out exactly which string changes you want? Do need knee levers? How many pedals do you need?

There are newer 8 string PSGs out there. I would try to find one.

Another option would be to buy a 10 string PSG and set it up with 8 strings. The front row customers will not complain.

Finally, you could have one built. Jackson, Desert Rose, and others can build you exactly what you want,

Good luck!

[Donny Hinson]

Alan,

I wanted an 8 string PSG and I looked at the Fender 400. I decided not to buy a 400 as the changer is very limited. Over the years many have been hacked up. The 400 never had knee levers from the factory. And as I understand it, you can't raise and lower the same string. The string can be raised or lowered but not both.

Not true! The Fender cable guitars are an all-pull design. In fact, they were the first really popular all-pull design (besides the Harlin Multi-Chord, which was sort of a niche instrument). They are capable of raising and lowering any string, although the earliest ones only had one raise note and one lower note per string capability. (Later models could raise and lower to two different notes.). Adding knee levers is a snap, but you’ll have to fab your own parts. They’re a cool guitar, but only suited for the few players who can work around or accept their quirks, compared to more modern instruments.

Lots of cool stuff was played on them, and I’ll post some good examples in a little while (dinner is waiting for me now).

[Tommy Mc]

Another option would be to buy a 10 string PSG and set it up with 8 strings.

I don't see any downside to this idea. In fact, one of my early mentors had done the same thing. This way, you get modern mechanics, and leave the option open to convert back to 10 strings. It might be easier to find an S10, and possibly a bigger resale market too.

[Donny Hinson]

Some people just want something different, simpler, something that others don't have or want to bother with. This is why people drive classic or antique cars, or why they like old clothes or old music. Of course, you can't play what Tommy White, Paul Franklin, or Lloyd Green does on an old Fender cable guitar. But you can make some good music! Most all of us know about Tom Brumley, and what he did on an old Fender (Together Again). But there are other things you may not have heard. Here are a few, played on an 8-string Fender cable pedal steel...and with no knee levers:

Speedy West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFfvxb6OLaU

Sneaky Pete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipx6zlsn4q8

Buddy Emmons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWtj2dvLDbo

Ralph Mooney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMkxRpRwMf0

Buddy Merrill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Up3lGjCx0

You like new guitars and fancy setups? Fine! But if you long for simplicity and nostalgia, old guitars are good, too!

[Chris Templeton]

Pedal steel usually has narrower string spacing and makes bar slants more difficult to execute.
These days, in recorded music, the steel has become an identifier of country music, though Americana music has incorporated pedals and lap steel in unique

[Dave Zirbel]

I sent you an email..I’m in the north bay.
Dave

[Jerry Overstreet]

I know absolutely nothing about them but Jimmy Hudson has built quite a few 8 stringer pedal steels in the last few years. They look very basic, but seem to get the job done with newer technology than the old Fenders.

I don't think he builds those anymore, but maybe look around here for a used one or on the online stores.

Our leader b0b had a Desert Rose 8 string. I don't know if that was a one off or not though.

Also Emmons built a few push pull 8 stringers but most of those were limited in knee levers.

[Alan Davidson]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I hadn't noticed them earlier. I just now figured out that I have to click the Watch link to get notifications.

I <i>am</i> considering a more modern 10. But my concern with those is not so much the number of strings (which is easily reconfigurable) as it is the narrower string spacing. I also find the Fenders appealing as a platform for copedent experimentation, well, at least in terms of pedals.

And I actually did call up Jimmie Hudson's business to ask him whether he'd build me a 7 or 8 string Hudsonator. Unfortunately, he has retired. A fellow named Grey (or Gray?) has taken over the business. He is considering building it for me, but his hands seem pretty full at the moment and I haven't heard back from him on that.

[Jerry Overstreet]

If you are a guitar player you will find the narrower spacing of a 10 string a little cramped but I guess we just get used to it.

In my case, when I played the Cougar 6 and the Emmons 8, it just felt like I had more space and freedom like the standard guitars I have.

There was another fellow in Indiana Dick Miller building basic 6 and 8 stringers. I think he calls them Redneck Steel Guitars. I contacted him a year or so ago, but all I he ever sent back was his contact info and he did not reply. Best of luck.

[Tony Oresteen]

Alan,

I wanted an 8 string PSG and I looked at the Fender 400. I decided not to buy a 400 as the changer is very limited. Over the years many have been hacked up. The 400 never had knee levers from the factory. And as I understand it, you can't raise and lower the same string. The string can be raised or lowered but not both.

Not true! The Fender cable guitars are an all-pull design. In fact, they were the first really popular all-pull design (besides the Harlin Multi-Chord, which was sort of a niche instrument). They are capable of raising and lowering any string, although the earliest ones only had one raise note and one lower note per string capability. (Later models could raise and lower to two different notes.). Adding knee levers is a snap, but you’ll have to fab your own parts. They’re a cool guitar, but only suited for the few players who can work around or accept their quirks, compared to more modern instruments.

Lots of cool stuff was played on them, and I’ll post some good examples in a little while (dinner is waiting for me now).

Donny,

I stand corrected! Thanks for the info. Sorry if I lead someone astray.

[Chris Templeton]

I think the narrowest string spacing pedal steel I've played is a Dekley. I think the strings might have been parallel up the neck with no taper, of I remember right.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Sorry to hear you are having to give up fiddle/violin.
My uncle was a great fiddle player till old age, And his left hand went.

A modern all pull steel, Have the easiest mechanics to change tunings around on. If you want to experiment, 2 or 3 allen wrenches you can change bell cranks, Rod, pedal and knee lever arrangements. Go from a raise to lower pull on a string in just a few minutes.
Good Luck in your choice, Happy Steelin.

[Tommy Auldridge]

Donnie: That Ralph Mooney example with Jonny & Joanie Mosby was great. That my favorite style of Ralph's. Thanks, Tommy.....

[Fred Treece]

Thanks for that post, Donny. Speedy smoked everyone else in your list with that tune. He made that thing sound like it had 20 strings, not 8. Gorgeous, yes, but he always finds a way to quirk it up too.

[Tim Toberer]

Some people just want something different, simpler, something that others don't have or want to bother with. This is why people drive classic or antique cars, or why they like old clothes or old music. Of course, you can't play what Tommy White, Paul Franklin, or Lloyd Green does on an old Fender cable guitar. But you can make some good music! Most all of us know about Tom Brumley, and what he did on an old Fender (Together Again). But there are other things you may not have heard. Here are a few, played on an 8-string Fender cable pedal steel...and with no knee levers:

Speedy West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFfvxb6OLaU

Sneaky Pete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipx6zlsn4q8

Buddy Emmons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWtj2dvLDbo

Ralph Mooney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMkxRpRwMf0

Buddy Merrill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Up3lGjCx0

You like new guitars and fancy setups? Fine! But if you long for simplicity and nostalgia, old guitars are good, too!

I like these sounds way better than anything I hear in the recent Pop country genre. How about Bud Isaacs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKZ6cr34UQY

[Dean Gray]

I am the lucky owner of a Williams D8 steel. It has wide string spacing, just like a Fender Stringmaster. They recently made a beautiful S8 for another forum member. They cost more than a Fender 400, but you get modern functionality and the Williams changer is highly regarded.

[Alan Davidson]

Thanks for the tip Dean. I picked up Fender 1000 a few days ago. I may well splurge on something new down the road, but I'm keeping myself thoroughly entertained for the moment.

[Bill Ferguson]

I just saw a post where Margie Mays (RIP) 8 string Excel is being sold. It is a great instrument and parts would still be available.

[David Ball]

I just saw a post where Margie Mays (RIP) 8 string Excel is being sold. It is a great instrument and parts would still be available.

I think that's a Jerry Byrd double 8 non-pedal model, but I could be wrong.

Dave