Play & Sing

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 3 Dec 2006 8:17 pm

I used to think I was a pretty good musician. Then I tried pedal steel. I thought that was the hardest thing I have ever tried to learn. Now I'm trying to play pedal steel and sing. Clearly, this is harder than just playing.

Maybe I should have stuck with bass.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 3 Dec 2006 9:29 pm

I've watched Junior Brown sing and play his Guit-steel and I'm just amazed. Don't see how he does it and make it look so easy. Keep at it I'm sure it'll get easier.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 3 Dec 2006 9:48 pm

I tried it once.Note I said once.

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 3 Dec 2006 9:54 pm

It's weird, but I can sing and play drums or rhythm guitar, but find it REALLY hard to sing and play bass. Sing and play steel? Yikes...

[This message was edited by Mike Winter on 03 December 2006 at 09:54 PM.]

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 3 Dec 2006 10:11 pm

It just occurred to me that what might make this much easier (for me anyway) is a headset with a mic. I find the most awkward part of the whole effort is leaning into a mic placed in front of my steel while trying to still be able to see my strings and frets.

I was considering running my mic through some kind of proccessor with a compressor/limiter anyway. I guess now I have something else to add.

Any suggestions on which one to get?

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Dec 2006 10:16 pm

I use a boom stand, puts the mike right where I want it. I can sing and play steel, but I can't sing and play bass very well unless it's harmony.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 3 Dec 2006 10:39 pm

I have always sang while playing pedal or lap steel, in many groups (some sucessful)

I have often even been the front man on steel, but of course singing makes it more difficult to make large fret jumps accurately you have to look down and therefore pull away from the mic.

SO: I recently purchased an audio-technica headset mic to try out. It sounds pretty good, (Not as much presence and proximity effect as my favorite Shure SM58)

But it is always there where it needs to be even when you look down, turn sideways to make eye contact with your sweetheart, or even turn around to adjust an amp... you can keep singing or talking.

The only small problem now is that on some songs when I reach for a high note, I belt it out and would usually move back from the mic a bit, then come in close for softer passages. I can't do that now, but I am learning to sing out of the side of my mouth sort of...

Dom Franco

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 4 Dec 2006 3:45 am

Hi Gary, I have been playing and singing now for about nine years. I am a single and perform mostly for nursing homes and alzheimers units. I do some special appeareances for people and there parties also.
I have been using a PRO Series Pro 8HEx Audio-technia for over 9 years now and it has been excellent and I have never had a problem or complaint about it. It cost $100 and is worth every cent. I would be lost without it. I find it very comfortable and it does not limit my ability in any way. I highly recommend it.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 4 Dec 2006 4:36 am

"Doctor, will I be able to sing afterward??"

"Of course you will."

"That's WONDERFUL! I never could sing before!"

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Mikey D...

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 4 Dec 2006 5:02 am

I just started singing a couple years ago, that is with the steel, its like you have to split your brain, one side for singing, one side for playing. I usually use a steel with my low bass tuning on it when I need to play & sing. It helps me to play chords easier.
tuning here

But I know a lot of guys are not comfortable with singing, or this tuning!!

Ernie

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Gareth Carthew · Post by **Gareth Carthew** » 4 Dec 2006 6:44 am

I don't fancy my chances much!
I can barely sing and play lead guitar at the same time. Sing and play steel?? Unlikey I think.

The irritating thing is that I sing better than I play, but I enjoy both.

I've been playing lead for nearly 12 years, you'd think I'd have mastered singing at the same time by now!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Dec 2006 7:58 am

"It's like you have to split your brain--" ----it would require a real small knife for mine!

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 4 Dec 2006 1:18 pm

James, maybe we could put our brains together and come up with something.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 4 Dec 2006 1:26 pm

there is a fellow in Pueblo named Donnie Duncan that make's it look easy, course he's been doing it a loooooong time

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400
Hilton volume pedal

Max W. Thompson · Post by **Max W. Thompson** » 4 Dec 2006 2:34 pm

I can sing and play the guitar or mandolin, but I've been doing that for 30 years. It is impossible for me to sing and play bass, and I've done that just as long. (DIfferent part of the brain.)

On the pedal steel, after 1 year, when I try to sing, I get distracted watching/listening to the instrument and find myself droping phrases and getting lost. I'm still at the "gee whiz this is a pedal steel guitar!" phase, and working on a fingerpicking accompaniment style on it.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 5 Dec 2006 2:00 pm

It cannot be done.

At least by me.
Actually if I keep it ultra simple and just play an instrumental or between the singing I can get by. But I don't think I'm doing anyone any favors by attempting it. By the way, Gary, do you still have that Sierra Bellcrank?
Fred

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 5 Dec 2006 2:36 pm

I've been doing it for about 25 years. I think the key is to get very comfortable at the steel before you try singing harmony and playing, then get real, real comfortable before lead singing.

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Mullen RP, Webb 6-14E, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 5 Dec 2006 4:00 pm

Fred, I still have the bellcrank here somewhere.

I found that when we practiced this weekend, if I was singing on a steel song, I mostly didn't play, except on lead parts and a few fills here and there.

I really think the headset would help out a lot. Who has a cheap one for me to try?

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 5 Dec 2006 8:24 pm

Two fellas here in Portland play and sing while playing pedal steel: Harley James and Larry Behm. Both stellar players, too.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2006 2:51 am

just keep in mind, Eddie Van Halen is not SINGING while playing his solo's..

neither is any great Musician..they are comping chords behind the voclas.

On Steel it is rather difficult because we really don't have any "idle" time such as the 6 string or Piano. We are constantly concentrating on Bar position , string grips and feet/knees and right foot volume.

Lots of mental/physicals going on.

Distractions if you will...

Can it be done ? I think so but it requires yet another long term practice discipline to deal with. We pretty much have to train our body and mind to do it.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Dec 2006 5:30 am

Play + Sing = Trainwreck (for me...)

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 6 Dec 2006 5:38 am

Well, how many of you guys switch to different instruments for a while during a gig? I'll probably play acoustic on a few tunes. Maybe do a set on bass too.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Dec 2006 7:19 am

There are some guitar and keyboard players who don't merely comp, but do play some fairly complicated stuff while singing. But they tend to track the vocal and play more simple stuff under the vocal. But they have one big advantage over steelers. The instrument plays in tune as long as you slap your fingers on the right notes. So they can use their ears exclusively to get the vocal intonation right. With steel you have to listen with one pair of ears and one brain to get both the steel and the vocal to play on pitch. Since you really can pay attention to only one at a time, you have to rapidly switch your attenion back and forth, leaving one or the other on autopilot during the switch. It can be done, but is way harder than playing a fixed pitch instrument while singing. Other variable pitched intruments, such as fiddle and horns, are rarely played while singing. It's almost impossible with a horn of course. But Rhasan Roland Kirk would grunt and hum while playing one or two saxes or a nose whistle. With fretless strings, it is technically possible, but very rarely attempted. Some country and bluegrass fiddlers can do it to some extent. And some upright bass players sing while playing - Willie Dixon and Sting come to mind, along with a bunch of country and bluegrass bass players who harmonize. But bass is easier to play in tune, because of the longer neck, and they are basically just slapping their fingers down acceptably near the right place, without making pitch adjustments on the fly as required for steel.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 06 December 2006 at 07:26 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2006 8:28 am

I think Dave is very accurate. For me, it has never been a problem to play Guitar and sing, and even Sing a bit with SOME minimal basic Steel..

But, I have never been able to hold down an asssertive Bass line or Percussive Bass line and sing a lead line at the same time.

Geddy Lee and Sting amaze me with that stuff..

but it comes back to, how did they spend there practice discipline..I have NEVER ever spent any practice time singing and playing Bass.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 6 Dec 2006 9:38 am

Gary is a great musician. At a recent jam when the backup band did not show, Gary used technology to provide drums and bass for the steel players. I'm hoping that he will shine at the next COPSG jam on Decemer 9, and will play his steel at the show.

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<img width=100 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/index.1.jpg>www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 06 December 2006 at 02:56 PM.]