Bigsby pickup repro?

[Andy DePaule]

Circle joke?
I was going to hold my thought here but...No!

I feel sorry for you Chris. You seem to have talent for buying what you want, but no talent to be able to make anything with your own hands and talent.
All while you judge the efforts of other who have those talents that you seem to lack.

As you sit in the middle of a collection of "Things of value" you have acquired....
You must be a very lonely fellow.

[Tim Toberer]

I told him he should raise the price because of all the work he has done to reach this level of perfection

I completely agree, I don't know how he could be making any money at that price. They look gorgeous! I can imagine all the work he has into getting those to that point. It is obvious it is a labor of love. Something folks on this forum should understand very well!! Very inspirational to me. I see a kindred spirit in this gentleman. I have always dreamed of finding an old water power mill to convert into a woodworking shop. Now why the hell would anyone want to do that!

For the project I am doing, I will be happy if I can get mine up and running at all. These are the first pickups I have ever made. I built a winder and plan on doing a bunch of experiments. I am definately not looking to do a Bigsby Repro, just using them as inspiration. Maybe in the future I might try something a little a little closer to the original. So much of my favorite music was played on old blade style pickups, I figure why not see what I can build in this style.

[Chris Lucker]

Circle joke?
I was going to hold my thought here but...No!

I feel sorry for you Chris. You seem to have talent for buying what you want, but no talent to be able to make anything with your own hands and talent.
.

You are right. I don't build musical instruments. I have restored old pedal steels, and wind pickups on my own winder, but when I make things, they are my handmade cowboy boots, spurs, one saddle and am a quarter way through my second hundred bamboo flyrods for which i make my own machinery for the milling of the strips etc. I have a ten inch Logan and a Bridgeport so I could make most anything I want -- including a half hour to make a screw to fix the gate when I could have bought a replacement at the hardware store for next to nothing.
Oh, I used to twist mane hair for a mecate and a cinch, but there is only so much mane hair I can collect at once.
Gosh, I wish I could make things like you do. I just don't have the time because i am making so many things.

[Andy DePaule]

Hello Mr. Red Bellies, Bigsbys, Name drops and Colby Mustangs!

Boots look okay if you like that kind of thing, but the pickup cover is a kind of pitted job?
The subject here is pick ups, not boots or always having a sports coat to feel like a real adult?
Guess the rest of us here on this thread of "Circle jokes" are just too dumb and stupid to understand a smart fellow like you?





Guess that means the plumber who makes your toilet flush and the carpenters who built your house are just children?
Nasty is the way I see it.
Here is the old Hurst I had. Maybe you could use it when needed. It has a luggage rack so you can take it all with you when you go! That is the Red Bellies, Bigsbys, Name drops and Colby Mustangs

[Chris Lucker]

Yes, those pickup covers are pitted. Paul Bigsby made those, along with the pickup dog bone. They aren’t reproductions. They came from the pile of original parts we got before Clinesmith got the rest.
I don’t know what a Colby mustang is, or whether I have ever seen one. I know Kiger mustangs, but they are small horses that actually have zebra traits. They were “discovered” in SE Oregon I think about sixty years ago. They have ridges of bristly hair in a few places like a zebra.

[Andy DePaule]

Yes, those pickup covers are pitted. Paul Bigsby made those, along with the pickup dog bone. They aren’t reproductions. They came from the pile of original parts we got before Clinesmith got the rest.
I don’t know what a Colby mustang is, or whether I have ever seen one. I know Kiger mustangs, but they are small horses that actually have zebra traits. They were “discovered” in SE Oregon I think about sixty years ago. They have ridges of bristly hair in a few places like a zebra.

Maybe thats why PA Didn't use them. Too pitted?
I forgot, was it Madam Colby who's name you dropped?
I'd call him Mr. Todd Clinesmith to show respect for the wonderful luthier he is even though he does not use a sports coat at work.
He is still an adult in his prime of life in my opinion.
You do know what respect is? Hint, It's not referring to people as a "Circle Joke"...
Also not speaking down to others, like grandma taught us.

[Chris Lucker]

Ask Todd about the PA parts we got from PW. Knock yourself out.

What is your point? Are you trying to make folks think you are a Bigsby expert? This thread is about Bigsby pickups. You don’t know anything about them, and every time you touch a Blankenship or Wright you destroy an important guitar for your vanity.
You criticize me for buying guitars. But I don’t update them. In fact, when I get a 1950’s pedal steel, I think it is more important to put the guitar back to exactly the way it was ordered from Bigsby — so the evolution of tunings, no matter if they are just a few pet licks linked to one-purpose pedals. This is important for historical reasons.
You will disagree, but early pedal steels are not made better with A, B and C pedals. There is no shortage of guitars that will fill that demand.

[Andy DePaule]

Well Chris,
Second time around you've accused me of "Trying to make folks think you are a Bigsby expert", but I have never ever done that because I certainly am not.

Now will you put your money where your mouth is? Show one time I have done that and I'll send you a crisp new $100.00 bill in the mail. But if you can't, you send me the $100.00. Somehow I don't expect you'll take me up on that bet?

All the rest of your last post is also a bunch of rubbish:
I've only owned one old 1960 Sierra. When I got it, it had rusty strings that looked to be 30 years old or older. However it was a closet queen in decent shape.
I suspect someone bought it and soon gave up playing and put it away for years.
I cleaned the changer and the Kluson tuners that were badly gummed up. Caused it to have very stiff pedal action and difficult to even turn the tuners.
Put on a new set of E9th strings as the pedals were already set up for that.
Didn't change a thing except to make it playable again and traded it off.
David Wright thought it was a proto type for that model because it had no serial number. Also that it was made in Red Bluff and that there were three of the first like that without numbers. My guess is he'd know what he was talking about.

Yes the Sierra did have 6 pedals and no knee levers. Had the A & B pedal without the C change, The E to F, E to Eb and the B to Bb on pedals where they made the most sense. I forget what was on the other pedal, but do remember it was a fairly standard E9th change. Made for some hoping around on the pedals, but a lot could be done.

My joy comes from building and restoring instruments rather than surrounding myself with them and bragging like you.

As for the Blankenship, That was bought from Todd and in need of restoration.
I replace some bad parts, New cables and bell cranks to replace the older home made sawed out broken one and all the others. Also added three more knee levers making the steel more useful for modern playing styles, but easy to be removed.
Cleaned and polished all the old aluminum parts and it played very nicely.
Kept all the original parts and passed them on with the steel.
It went to a nice fellow in Michigan who is a terrific player, far better than me.

Have only seen three Blankenships including mine and none were the same as any other Blankenship so original replacement parts are simply not available.
You should know that or maybe you just don't know as much as you'd have people believe?

Seems your joy or a sign of your lack of joy comes from knocking other people with a superior attitude that I'm confident you are very insecure about.
Have a good life.

[Tim Toberer]

There was a plane crash on a deserted island and everyone was killed except for two boys. They escaped the wreckage, each one not knowing the other existed. They each found ways to survive, developing skills and grew confident on the island. They built strong shelters and found many good things to eat. Surrounded by fast currents, and dangerous shores, the sea would not give up its bounty. One day while exploring a far shore of the island, one of the man discovered a small calm shore with pools in a labyrinth of large rocks. The pools were filled with crabs, oysters and scallops. The outer stretches were shallow and filled with large fish. The man sharpened a long stick and soon had more meat than he could eat.

The next day the man returned to the cove only to spy the other man there fishing with a long spear! He grew fearful and retreated only to return when he knew he would be alone. For a while this worked. Each of the men grew aware of the other, only fishing when the other had left, till one day while fishing for crabs, the man turned only to be startled by the other man. For a moment each froze in fear, and then silence...... AARGh! One of the men raised his spear and thrashed the other man and he moaned out in horror! He then wielded his own stick and the fury began! I the midst of this conflagration, the men did not notice the gathering storm at sea. The sea was growing angry, for the sea loves to be calm. A mighty wind grew, black clouds and rain forced the men to retreat from their positions as the storm devoured the island.

After the storm cleared, the men awoke to a changed landscape. The storm had destroyed their precious island. Their groves of fruit left to rot, coconuts blown into the sea. The island, barren for the sun to bake. The men realized they had three choices, as the cove was the only source of sustenance. CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE

A.The men strategize to kill each other, after a long battle one prevails only to die soon after from his injuries
B.The men share the cove. They return to their old ways and only hunt when the other has left
C.The men make peace with each other and work to improve and preserve their knowledge for future island dwellers

[J D Sauser]

Chris and Andy.
May I suggest that below conversation is loosing it's allure.
I would kindly but firmly ask you both and anybody who wishes to jump in to take sides to stop this interchange or take their irreconcilable differences outside of the "bar".
If anyone feels they have differences they need to settle, THIS HERE is NOT your court.
We are trying to build better guitars, that's all.

My experience with heated debates online from the very early years of public online forums on thru today's times, is that just like Tic Tak Toe, one CANNOT win an argument on the internet. Insisting always escalates with "cold wars" going "hotter". Been there, done that and not proud of it. The easiest thing is to just IGNORE.

So, NO winners declared here! No culpability directed at anybody either.
No hard feelings, no judging.

Don't let your days be soured by disagreements and misunderstandings with people far away which otherwise have NO impact on your lives. Play music!

Please do NOT respond to this HERE. I will delete any reaction to this, even favorables ones or accolades to the moderator at once.
If you feel you have to comment further on this subject, you can PM the moderator, but the moderator reserves the right to prefer to practice one of his too many steel guitars and not answer un-constructive plights.

So please just sit back, take a deep breath, turn the page, learn a new lick on your guitars and lets consider too, that language is important and that the people on the other side of the screen that are rather unlikely to be your enemies, sometimes write things in an ambiguous, even sloppy and sometimes not well thought thru manner or often understand what they read completely differently to what the writer meant to convey, which is in my opinion the main reason why these exchanges flare up now and too why they cannot be won.

So, lets back to being CONSTRUCTIVE (this is why it's called the Builder's Corner").

Good day, Gentelmen!... J-D.

I have to ask here.
Is this little circle joke because the pickups “appear correct”? Sorry, not worth the time following this to get the quote exact.
Why not just reproduce all the details of a First generation, second generation, or third generation Bigsby pickup already available. Except by the schmucks who bury the truth with their guesses.

Hello Mr. Red Bellies, Bigsbys, Name drops and Colby Mustangs!

Boots look okay if you like that kind of thing, but the pickup cover is a kind of pitted job?
The subject here is pick ups, not boots or always having a sports coat to feel like a real adult?
Guess the rest of us here on this thread of "Circle jokes" are just too dumb and stupid to understand a smart fellow like you?



Guess that means the plumber who makes your toilet flush and the carpenters who built your house are just children?
Nasty is the way I see it.
Here is the old Hurst I had. Maybe you could use it when needed. It has a luggage rack so you can take it all with you when you go! That is the Red Bellies, Bigsbys, Name drops and Colby Mustangs

[Andy DePaule]

Chris and Andy.
May I suggest that below conversation is loosing it's allure.
I would kindly but firmly ask you both and anybody who wishes to jump in to take sides to stop this interchange or take their irreconcilable differences outside of the "bar".

We are trying to build better guitars, that's all.

The easiest thing is to just IGNORE.

So, NO winners declared here! No culpability directed at anybody either.
No hard feelings, no judging.

I agree, Sounds good to me. It was just the attitude towards all of us that got under my skin.

[J D Sauser]

...

The easiest thing is to just IGNORE.

So, NO winners declared here! No culpability directed at anybody either.
No hard feelings, no judging.

I agree, Sounds good to me. It was just the attitude towards all of us that got under my skin.

Don't LET it go under your skin! It's not good for your skin... you can get stretch marks from it!




Thanks... J-D.

[Andy DePaule]

[quote="J D Sauser"
Don't LET it go under your skin! It's not good for your skin... you can get stretch marks from it!

Thanks... J-D.[/quote]

Thanks, I'd never let it go that deep. I kind of enjoyed it anyway.
I think the $100.00 bet seemed to end it anyway.

Builders corner is my favorite part of the forum now.
I really like how people are helping each other here.
That will lead to new ideas being developed for the good of everyone.

[Les Ford]

Shane Larson is a meticulous guy that is very concerned about getting these pickups right.
The original pickups that he was making were variations on Bigsby guitar pickups in the spirit of TK Smith. These have a much higher impedance (3.8 K) and are smaller to fit in guitars (11 oz with the mounting bezel. They are also perfectly suitable for lap steel. They are beautifully made.

The new pickups are completely designed as Bigsby steel guitar pickups with the correct (2.05 K) impedance. These pickups are larger and heavier than the guitar versions (1 lb 3 oz with the mounting bezel).They are an excellent match to the pickup in my Clinesmith. The only notable difference is that the "T" section is made in two pieces with the perpendicular blade attached with screws to the bottom plate. This is no doubt due to the difficulty in casting iron vs aluminum in Shane Larson's small shop. Aside from this they are very much like Chris Lucker's photos and they are uniformly excellent pickups.
I believe that the mounting bezels are optional.

The quality and care put into these pickups are outstanding. There is no stamped metal here. They are sand cast aluminum.

Here are pictures of the guitar and steel guitar versions for comparison. Both are eight string versions with a three inch blade:

[David Ball]

Shane Larson is a meticulous guy that is very concerned about getting these pickups right.
The original pickups that he was making were variations on Bigsby guitar pickups in the spirit of TK Smith. These have a much higher impedance (3.8 K) and are smaller to fit in guitars (11 oz with the mounting bezel. They are also perfectly suitable for lap steel. They are beautifully made.

The new pickups are completely designed as Bigsby steel guitar pickups with the correct (2.05 K) impedance. These pickups are larger and heavier than the guitar versions (1 lb 3 oz with the mounting bezel).They are an excellent match to the pickup in my Clinesmith. The only notable difference is that the "T" section is made in two pieces with the perpendicular blade attached with screws to the bottom plate. This is no doubt due to the difficulty in casting iron vs aluminum in Shane Larson's small shop. Aside from this they are very much like Chris Lucker's photos and they are uniformly excellent pickups.
I believe that the mounting bezels are optional.

The quality and care put into these pickups are outstanding. There is no stamped metal here. They are sand cast aluminum.

Here are pictures of the guitar and steel guitar versions for comparison. Both are eight string versions with a three inch blade:

I sort of hate to resurrect this thread, but I got a couple of Shane Larson's pickups for a Bigsby-esque electric Spanish guitar I'm about to start working on. I got the ones with the adjustable pole pieces, and the bridge pickup with the taller mounting ring.

I've got to say that I'm very impressed. Great quality, and obvious pride in what he's doing (and he's doing it the old time way with sand cast aluminum parts and no power tools). I've only gotten to hear them in my test rig, but they sound great. They measure in at about 3.3K DCR. I think that's pretty close to the original PAB 6 string pickups.

I got them quickly and with great personal service. These are very nice pickups, and the best I can tell very true to the originals in both build and karma. Kudos to Shane for a job well done!

Dave

[Andy DePaule]

Thanks to Les & Dave,
I could not agree more. The pickups he is making are really great.
I'm very thankful for the ones he sent to me and can hardly wait to get them in my instruments.
That reminds me I was going to send him some extra 3" magnets that I have and clean forgot to get them in the mail. Will jump on that tomorrow.
Andy

[Chris Clem]

This is a original 1950s Bigsby shown with the coils and magnets.

photo from
http://fryerguitarpickups.com/

[Chris Lucker]

Certain features show it is a November 1955 to March 1957 pickup.

[Tim Toberer]

What kind of magnets?

[Jim Pitman]

The mass of the pole piece makes a significant difference, and whoa, that's a massive pole piece on the Bigsby pickup. It increases the inductance greatly. One can use less winds to achieve the same inductance.
Here's a little science to bore you with:
The tone of a pickup is related to RCL, Resistance/Capacitance/Inductance (L). A pickup mimics passive filter behavior. The three combine to affect the Q of the filter. A high Q will make a filter with steeper slope in the bandpass frequency region and thus will reinforce a certain frequency range more aggressively. Q=L/R so it makes sense that if you increase L without increasing R the Q goes up.
I recall fooling with the length of the Tonealigner pole pieces from 14 to 16 to 18mm and it had a noticeable affect on the tone.

[Tim Toberer]

One can use less winds to achieve the same inductance.

That is what I was thinking. Just intuition. I am curious if you think the type of magnet matters, or if it is just the amount of magnetism? I kind of feel like magnetism is magnetism. I finished up some pickups using Neo magnets, cause they are small and powerful and take up less space. This makes a very compact pickup possible. They sound great!

[Jim Pitman]

Tim, I've used Alnico and did not try anything else.

I would think the gauss or measure of magnetism strength will affect the amplitude of the signal produced more so than the tone (which the winding characteristics affect).

Here's another observation. Those windings farther from the magnet produce most of the signal because the magnetic lines of force are at a bigger radius. The string vibration creates bigger excursions of the lines of force as a result. So in theory you can leave quite a gap between the magnet and the wind and you will need less windings to produce the same strength. I believe this is the concept of the single coil pickup in the Fender Jazz master guitar.

[Chris Lucker]

A Bigsby pickup picks up string vibrations and creates a sound all the way out to the mounting screws of that dog bone core. They are not like the one Rickenbacker horseshoe I had, where my experience is that the ten string horseshoe was really only effective for eight strings. (I gave it to Jason Lollar.) An 8 string Bigsby pickup works perfectly well with 10 strings and handled more when I experimented with temporarily mounted strings. The blade on the Bigsby dog bone photo I posted is 3"; the length of the base is 4 1/2"
As to the number of winds on a Bigsby pickup, pickups were originally wound to match the tuning ordered for each neck. The files for individual guitars typically state the winding numbers and the numbers do vary quite a bit. The magnet composition is not noted.
PeeWee Whitewing told me how he and his father-in-law sat at the kitchen table and removed windings on his pickups using an egg beater! He must not have had a hand drill. I think he performed this surgery on his second Bigsby, which he bought used, for the "Six Pack to Go" sessions. The apron did not have an inlaid name. PeeWee could not recall the name of the woman from whom he got the guitar, but it was not Marian Hall or Wanda or Elsie or Millie or Ludie Long or Lang, or Dorian Vane. Who knows, it could have been an angry girlfriend?

[Dan Otranto]

Here are my attempts at making Bigsby style PUs



Here is a 8 string rail, I cast the cover, the rail is chromoly and the base is hot rolled 0.2 and they are TIG welded together to try and replicate as best I could the cast iron rail+plate of the originals.




Here are two types of bases, I increased the base plate thickness considerably to try and increase inductance. Will be interesting to see if there is a noticeable difference between the thinner plate and the thicker type.




I've also built some of the black oxide hex screw pickups, they sound ok, nothing to write home about though. I tried making some with bar magnets on both sides of the coil, and compared them to one with only a single bar magnet on one side. Henries were very, very slightly higher in the one with two magnets, imo it's not worth it.


All the bar magnets I've used are AlNiCo 5, I'm curious what type of magnet was used in the real Bigsby's....if they were AlNiCos and if they were, what grade of AlNiCo.

The construction with the encapsulating cover on a thick plate makes these pickups INCREDIBLY microphonic, which I both like and dislike. I'm going to try light wax potting. I've seen pictures of some of the originals that look like they were filled up with a wax or epoxy.


Here is a Bigsby style guitar I built with the black oxide hex screw pole piece type pickups




Gonna try to make some with rod magnets similar to Jazzmaster pickups, imo rod magnets make a much nicer sounding pickup than one with a mediator through bar magnets.

[Chris Lucker]

Dan, I sent you a pm. Nice-looking work!