What do pedals add to C6th ?

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 28 Oct 2006 12:16 pm

In thumbing through one of my old Steel Guitar World magazines I came across a diagram of a pedal steel C6th tuning.
I discovered that the first 7 strings are tuned the same way as my 7-string SuperSlide.
So now I'm wondering what the pedals add to the mix. Ed

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 28 Oct 2006 12:51 pm

I've been thinking the same thing myself. I use the pedals on the E9 neck, but on the C6 neck they don't seem to make changes that are much use to me. What copedants do you use on the C6 neck ?

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 28 Oct 2006 1:23 pm

The C-6th neck with the use of pedals makes so many other things available that it is phenomenol. There is so much beautiful music and styles available that it just melts your heart. I just love the C-6th tuning and since I do not play clubs anymore, I find that I use the C6th a lot more then the E-9th. I use pedal 5 and 6 the most, then pedal four, then pedal seven and pedal 8 the least. I know that others will use the 8th pedal a lot more then I do, but that is just my preference.
Misty, September Song and Yesterday are just a few of my very favorites, but there are so many more swing numbers and all of the original country tunes that were done in C-6th, too numerous to mention.

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 28 Oct 2006 3:52 pm

Thanks for the replies, but I still don't get it. I play non-pedal(straight) steel guitar and I play a pretty good mix of songs in major and minor keys; for example:
Smoke gets in your eyes, Kawliga, Ghost Riders, City Lights, My Blue Heaven, Slowly,
Saint James Infirmary, There Stands The Glass, Green Sleeves, Together Again,Beautiful Dreamer, House of the Rising Sun, etc., etc., etc...
But I am wondering if pedals would bring something more to the table on these; and if they would, what exactly ?

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 28 Oct 2006 4:09 pm

Ed, come on down to Hastings tomorrow and watch Joe Savage, Jerry Dube, Lefty and some of the rest that will be there and see for yourself up close what those pedals can do.

Geo

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 28 Oct 2006 4:16 pm

Ed, for me, they open up more chord possiblities making changes in chord progressions much more smooth, not to mention interesting. Check out Herby Wallace's C6 HWP 200 & 2001 courses (with CDs) to see a bunch of examples of the chords obtained using various pedal- lever combinations as well as progressions, intros, endings, and songs. Also, his C6th related song couses would give more illustrations. Then too, you also have the "Swinging" courses with CDs put out by Buddy Emmons to punctuate the point. Good luck, steve t[This message was edited by steve takacs on 28 October 2006 at 05:17 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 29 Oct 2006 6:46 am

Pedals were added to C6 to play swing.
Swing typically uses the chords you get with the pedals. You can play songs like 'Anytime' or 'Window Faces the South' within a few frets using pedals and you'd be moving the bar much further and more often without them.

Look at the chords in the typical 5 pedal setup
P4 = CMa7
P5 = D7
P6 = F7
P7 = CMa9
P8 = A7
P5+P6 = dim7 chord (F#, A, C, D# dim)

There's a lot of logic there if you look for it.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 29 Oct 2006 10:44 am

Ahhhh, now we're getting somewhere . . .

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Oct 2006 10:57 am

"The C-6th neck with the use of pedals makes so many other things available that it is phenomenal."

I agree with Robert and other related comments above. I played non-pedal (C6/B6) for 15 years before adding pedals, and it expanded the parameters of that neck so much that I would never again play without pedals.

......the exception would be to play Hawaiian or retro country recorded before pedals.

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<img width=100 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/index.1.jpg>www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 29 October 2006 at 01:07 PM.]

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 29 Oct 2006 1:20 pm

If you really want to hear pedals building chords and working within the melody, I can think of no better example than Curly Chalker's brilliant pedal work. Listening to his massive extended chords sustaining and connecting into other chords will give your gut something to growl about.

More recently, admitted Chalker devoteé the awesome Johnny Cox will give you a more modern sounding rendition of his stuff plus some of his own.

I love fixed tunings in the hands of geniuses like Tom Morrell et al, but nothing else can send you over the top like grabbing a fistful of strings and using the pedals to add movement.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Oct 2006 1:39 pm

Go to this site. On the left, near the top of the page is a link called "video clips". Click on that and it will take you to a page of videos, featuring Bobbe Seymour. Take a look, and listen, to his version of "Misty".

Lee, from South Texas[This message was edited by Lee Baucum on 29 October 2006 at 01:40 PM.]

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 30 Oct 2006 11:14 am

Click Here

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 30 Oct 2006 3:09 pm

Those "U-Tube" things always sound broken up on my pc, but thanks for replying.

Dale Lee · Post by **Dale Lee** » 30 Oct 2006 3:30 pm

All of the C6 pedal steels I see are one of the two necks. Does anyone play single neck pedal C6? Is that done? Just wondering.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 30 Oct 2006 3:49 pm

Ed - For the You Tube videos to play smoothly, try pausing the video and let it load completely. Then hit play. That should help.

Lee

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 31 Oct 2006 12:19 am

Thanks Lee, I'll try that.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 31 Oct 2006 4:44 am

If you want to learn what pedals do for C6, take a C6 instruction course. You will be amazed at what you can learn.

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

Parr Bryan · Post by **Parr Bryan** » 31 Oct 2006 10:04 am

Hey Ed,
In my playing around on C6 on a D10 not using pedals I find that I can make the sounds of pedals 5,6,7 by slanting the bar either forward or backward. So the pedals make it so you don't have to use the "slants".

I don't know if you are new to steel but if so look on ebay where Cindy Cashdollar (the pedalless steel player for Asleep at the wheel-Western swing-blues)sometimes has courses including bar slants. Good luck and have fun. Man when I play C6 without pedals I sometimes have to move that bar realllllllllyyyyy fast.

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Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 31 Oct 2006 1:06 pm

what the pedals add to the mix

Larry Bell pointed out a good deal of what the basic pedals do. Basically, you have an open C6 chord or Fmaj9 (with an F note in the bottom), and either a D or a G note on top. Depending on what pedal setup you have, you can change that C6 chord to

C7, C9, Cm6, Cm7, Cm9, Cmin(maj7), Cmin(maj9), Cmaj7, Cmaj9, C6/9, Cdim7, Cdim9, Cm7b5, Cm9b5, C7b9, Cm7b9, C7b5, C+, C7+5, C9+5, C7#11+5, C7b9#11.

I'm sure there are some more chords with a C root. Now, do the same thing for chords with an F root. Then an A root. Then a D root (pedal 5, string 10). There are a few with an F# root (pedal 5, string 9). And many chords without the root.

So you've taken a few C6 and Fmaj9 based chords, and with pedals added, you can probably find 40-50 or so different chords and voicings using pedals just at that one fret. That is just the beginning of what pedals give you. Of course, the art is knowing what to do with them.

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Jeff's Jazz

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 31 Oct 2006 1:24 pm

Does that ever become burdensome ?

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 31 Oct 2006 2:17 pm

What I'm trying to get out of my C6, having all the chord options is never burdensome.

For me...LESS pedal and lever chord options is ultimately MORE limited musically.

So in my case, LESS is MORE.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 31 Oct 2006 9:17 pm

Burdensome... HUH, more likely freeing.

There are a ton of chords on a 10 or 12 string superslide,
but it goes up exponentially in speed
and distance to move with pedals.

And this was just talking of the pedals.
Add the levers and much more becomes possible.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 1 Nov 2006 5:32 am

No, it doesn't become burdensome because they are 'options' and if you don't know about them, they can't possibly get in your way. It's kind of like asking whether living in such a large country as the USA, with so many highways and streets stretching for thousands of miles is 'burdensome' when you really just need to go to the next town: if you're not going there, those extra potential destinations will not get in your way when you simply head over to the next town.

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 1 Nov 2006 11:12 am

i have added 3 rd string raise C to C# and already had the 3 rd lower a half. with the 1 st string tuned to a D instead of a high G i can show you a chromatic run like e-9th and the A & B pedal E9th lick. I'm working on some other stuff from the E 9th also.these changes are all on knee levers .

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Mullen D 10 9&9 Emmons D 10 8 & 5. Evans Amp , Steelers Choice Seat Hilton Pedal ,Herby Wallace JagWire strings