Your Opinion about playing in tune???

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 17 Oct 2006 1:37 pm

So many times i have played or set in with different bands and some times it sounds real good but most of the time it seems to suck. It seems like everyone or most will get offended if you ask them to tune with the same tuner. I cant play anything hardly when it sounds like this. I think when its like this some of the instruments are flat or sharp or have atleast a string or two out. It drives me crazy. I hate to be so blunt but i think a guy that dont seem to care if everyone is in tune should stay home. I just know that so many people has had the same thing happen. I'v had this problem all my life. I'll never play with a band steady again if they dont want to be in tune. I am really excited to hear your experiences. It makes you thihk you are out on the steel at times even though you know better. So what do you do with all these super duper pros like this?????????????[This message was edited by Gary Steele on 17 October 2006 at 02:38 PM.]

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 17 Oct 2006 2:11 pm

Gary, sounds like you have perfect pitch. That can be a blessing or a curse. I have been in bands where the guys just can't hear when they are in tune. I don't hang around too long in those situations.

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My playing sounds more like it did before than it does now

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 17 Oct 2006 2:22 pm

Big Gary, I played that Carter Fri. night with the hippy band, everytime the singer put his capo on, his guitar was badly out of tune, so I just did my best. None of the barflys seemed to care, but it drives me nuts!
This guy has a decent guitar, I'm gonna take it from him and find out why it goes out of tune so bad. JP

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Oct 2006 2:35 pm

No matter what instrument, GOOD MUSICIANS PLAY IN TUNE. PERIOD.

Find someone else to play with. (or else learn to live with it)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Oct 2006 3:46 pm

What Larry said.

Seriously though, I've played with a pile of guitar players that played HORRIBLY SHARP.

Probably four GOOD ONES that PLAYED IN TUNE, I can name in this town of lepers. One of whom are deceased now.

Here's the problem.

UNLESS they are GOOD, IN TUNE GUITAR PLAYERS, or "one percenters" as I call them, they are playing sharp.

Here's two reasons why.

One is that they use .010s when they shouldn't be if they don't have a sensitive touch.

Two, is that when they "have somebody set up" their guitar, without fail they will have them intone the twelfth fret "perfectly".

Unless, like I said they have the correct touch of a "one percenter" they have no business intoning anything above the 7th fret any higher than 10 cents flat. No more business than they have playing with spiderweb strings.

Three, there are times when a good guitar player bends the neck slightly forward to make up for a chord they are grabbing and letting ring with a bunch of strings pressed hard. The majority of the lousy ones that I have played with do the opposite, without thinking.

In a humorous comment, you can give them your Jeff Newmann Tuning Chart, and let them know how many cents flat or sharp you are tuning, and then try telling them that they are the ones that are out of tune.

If they are flat, they are most certainly not tuning to a tuner enough.

Vocalists are usually flat. Shoot them. Fiddle players that do't have their own tune center usually follow them flat. Get away from them.

Hope I helped.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 17 October 2006 at 04:48 PM.]

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 17 Oct 2006 4:49 pm

Gary Tell em tune it Or I am Going Home. No excuse too Be too Lazy Too tune Case closed.

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 17 Oct 2006 4:51 pm

Great comments so far. As i said this is your opinion and we all have one. So go ahead. I dont play guitar at all so therefore i only know about tuning the steel. Wi play with Mike Siglers band for instance the tuning with them is clear as a bell. I go and Jam with them at times on Sundays.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 17 Oct 2006 5:39 pm

I recommend you buy one of these: http://www.elderly.com/also/accessories/items/TEE40-XL.htm

-John

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 17 Oct 2006 5:42 pm

Good guitar players will "sweet" tune, and that's probably going to be different than the "sweet" tuning a steel player might use. This is the point where arranging chops come in handy!

Bad guitar players (steel or standard) tune straight-up with an electronic tuner, and then you've got a can of intonational worms.

The worst offenders are the "close enough for rock-n-roll" types who don't know how to put a capo on, or make a bar chord without pulling the strings out of tune.

Your best bet is to play with the bass and ignore everyone else!

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 17 Oct 2006 6:06 pm

Just a different perspective here. This seems like another "Steel players are the best, and everyone else stinks" type of thread. That type of thinking does no steel players any favors. Part of playing with many different players is learning how to sound good with them and enjoy yourself, even if they are not in tune, not in time, too loud or whatever. Too few gigs around to shut yourself out because you're too sensitive. JMHO.

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Jeff's Jazz

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 17 Oct 2006 6:08 pm

I'm in ear monitors now, so I crank the bass, piano and ME up - guitars and singers down very low, if at all. I then use only one ear, which gives a nice ambient mix of FOH coming back.

It's not perfect, but much better than hearing the guitar player(s) too loud. Fortunately, the fiddle players that I work with play pretty well in tune most of the time. We do have some good fiddlers here.

JC

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Oct 2006 6:29 pm

Well Gary, you provided the best answer to your question. If every band you played with sounded out of tune it would be one thing. Since there are some instances that they do sound like they're in tune, you know the difference.

Don't ever lose that.

I've put a limit of a couple years on playing with unsatisfactory conditions just to make the money. Any more than that, and I feel there's a risk of losing perspective.

EJL

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Oct 2006 6:41 pm

John, you crack me up.

GREAT TEE SHIRT!

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 17 Oct 2006 7:24 pm

I highly recommend playing in tune. It sounds much better than not.

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Mikey D...

Damien Odell · Post by **Damien Odell** » 17 Oct 2006 8:18 pm

I have played with fiddle players who play flat like no ones business. I just wonder to myself - can't they hear that, but apparently not. It's frustrating cause it makes the whole band sound bad.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 17 Oct 2006 8:29 pm

My band all use in line tuners. We calibrate them against each other about every other month. We are very consious of being in tune and will silent tune thoughout the set if anyone is out. Our former guitar player had a heavy grip and used 009's. He would disintonate with me and come over and ask me why we were out even though when we were in tune. I would tell him that he is over gripping his touch. There are many guitar players with no touch. Eric is right. On the other hand, our current Strat player is a Buffalo Hall Of Fame player. He is Nashville quality. His touch is outstanding. We intonate very well and are very consious of each other's playing. If a band won't coordinate on tuning issues, like tuners, they are amateurs and will never sound good. There are many. I am lucky to be playing with the guys I do. They are real professionals when it comes to tuning and intonation.

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 17 Oct 2006 10:24 pm

I like to play in tune. It's fun and sometimes challenging!

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 17 Oct 2006 11:37 pm

I've played in tune all my life. ITS THE REST OF THE DAMN BAND THAT'S OUT OF TUNE!!!

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.</pre>

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 Oct 2006 12:33 am

it's over rated

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 18 Oct 2006 5:42 am

Recently, I played a job with a band I had never worked with before. Two songs into the first set the guitar sits his guitar down and walked off stage. He was soo drunk he couldn't finish so we called another to come sub for us.

He gets there and wasn't a bad player at all but he played horribly out of tune for he next three hours.

You just have to grin and pick.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

Tommy Allison · Post by **Tommy Allison** » 18 Oct 2006 6:33 am

I don't believe I have perfect pitch but, I'm so fussy about being in tune that the drummer in a band I worked with over thirty years ago nick named me Tommy Tune-up. In another group, before the days of the convenient little electronic tuners, I used to tune my steel, the lead players guitar, the rythm players guitar, and the bass from an E note off of the C harmonica. My argument was, we may have been out of tune but, at least we would all be out the same. One night, while playing with my present group, the lead player had to do a quick re-tune in mid-set. The bass player announced over the mic, we tune because we care. I like that attitude.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 Oct 2006 6:56 am

Much as Eric and I have sparred over straight up ET and JI, if there are any tuning problems, either from instruments or ears, I will be very happy if the guitars just get straight up and stay there (even with a capo). Recently I am hearing a lot of bands where the keyboard sounds really horrible. It's not because of ET or JI, but because the guitars, including bass, are not tuning well to a meter or to the keyboard. I know some keyboards can adjust their reference pitch across the board. Maybe sometimes they should do this, but maybe that's just digging the hole deeper. I pity the poor keyboard player, wanking away out of tune for no fault of their own. Steel is luckier in that regard - we can adjust.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 18 Oct 2006 7:08 am

I would never worry about offending anyone if it sounds out of tune. I tell them either tune to the same tuner or calibrate tuners with each other. I just tell them because i play a non fretted instrument we need to do this. If they get offended i would consider them unprofessional and i would move on to different players. [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 18 October 2006 at 08:08 AM.]

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 18 Oct 2006 9:17 am

Great answers, Keep them coming. I'm in no way picking on anyone. Nice shirt i really like that JOHN. To me when this tuning thing is going on it kinda sounds like someone walked by and twisted a few keys on the Pedal Steel. Sure sounds aweful to me. After playing the other night i went home and left my guitar tuned just like it was and put a Mel Street CD on and played along a little and it was right on, SOOOOOO?????

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 18 Oct 2006 9:19 am

I think the best thing would be to do is get the tuning thing straight with the rest of the band before you join. AGREE?????