Fender 1000 And Its Credits

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Jul 2006 1:58 pm

L. Fender's 1000 has a list of credits a mile long, and then some. Was it the most durable pedal steel guitar ever built? I would be hesitant to argue the possibility in terms of veracity.

Jay Yuskaitis · Post by **Jay Yuskaitis** » 19 Jul 2006 2:32 pm

Aye, aye.
Jay Y.

------------------

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Jul 2006 7:26 pm

The old Fender pedal steels were certainly one of the most durable and easy to produce designs ever made, being mostly sheet metal. The earliest guitars featured pedals, pulleys, bell-cranks, key-head and even a changer that was all sheet meta1! The only machined parts (other than the aluminum/magnesium frame and the leg-collars) were the pedal adjusters, the bell-crank mounts, and the nut and bridge, and these were all simple lathe items. This meant that the guitar could be cheaply and quickly produced, but the introduction of rod-actuated guitars (mainly the Sho~bud and Emmons) with a more versatile and positive action, as well as the takeover of Fender by CBS spelled the end for these guitars in a little over a decade.

I have no doubt that a country like China could reproduce these guitars today for a fraction of their original cost, but that will probably never happen due to the limited market.

Pity.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Jul 2006 7:52 pm

I think that the thick solid ash necks that laid in the metal frame also contributed to their extreme durability. I sure wish I'd kept mine even though it was the early model with no roller bridge.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 19 July 2006 at 08:53 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 20 Jul 2006 1:15 am

No cabinet drop or de-tuning with temperature.
Most of my albums were done on a Fender 1000.

I wonder what the present steel guitar would look like if the PS-210 had been mass produced and marketed aggressively ?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Jul 2006 4:44 am

Donny H.,

Isn't it a bit misleading to state that China could produce the Fender 1000 at a fraction of the original cost? Those who were resposible for the production of the F. 1000, would get a chuckle, and then frown on that statement. Any attempt to reproduce the quality materials, would result in pricing the instrument far above what most musicians would be willing to pay. It may very well come to pass, that the workmanship found in the F. 1000, will cause a sharp increase in its selling price in the future.
Further, try to imagine the production of the original 1000 cases, by another firm, at an affordable price. It isn't likely to happen.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 20 Jul 2006 10:04 am

Baz, any idea why there is no 'detuning with temperature' on the 1000's?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Jul 2006 1:03 pm

Any attempt to reproduce the quality materials, would result in pricing the instrument far above what most musicians would be willing to pay.

Sorry Bill, but I'll have to vehemently disagree. I played a 1000 for almost 8 years. I know exactly what went into them, and I know exactly what it takes to make that stuff. The sheet metal stuff is literally nickles and dimes to manufacture. The few machined parts were also a cinch to make, as they're so simply designed. The casting and the wood body are the most significant items, and there's little sophistication required to make those.

I'm also familiar with the Chinese "manufacturing juggernaut", and all it's capabilities, so I'm not deceiving anyone when I say that a 1000 could be produced and sold for close to half of what Fender sold it for in the early '60s. If you don't know about Fender's "Squier" line of electric straight guitars, I suggest you look into it. Their "Bullet" model is a knockoff of the Strat design; complete with a maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, chrome tuners, 3 pickups, and a 5-way switch. It lists for $165.99, but sells regularly for under $100! No, it's not like a real "made in USA" Fender guitar, but the old 1000 was no Emmons, either! Straight guitars have some precision operations that must be performed in their manufacture. Steel guitars (those like Fender made) have no such precision required. There's no neck joints, frets, nuts, or bridges to adjust or place precisely. You take a slab or two of wood, finish it, screw it into the frame, and then screw all the other parts onto it.

Yes, the old Fender steels were simple, rugged, reliable marvels of engineering, but let's not elevate a WWII Jeep to "Land Rover status" just yet.

They did have numerous "weak points".

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Jul 2006 3:21 pm

Donny H.,

Thanks for your candid replies which are interesting to read. I'm a full time label reader, and I was made to be aware of inferior products from an early date. Granted, imported goods (depending on the item) can be well worth dollars spent. Then there has been too many American dollars spent on articles of interest that look pretty, but don't hold up to constant use. (I'll cite tools, as an example.) Nickel and dime stores are selling cheap 6 string guitars, that are impossible to tune. A lady brought one to me for tuning, and it was so cheap, that the weight of my hand on the neck would detune the little thing. I tried tuning it to an open chord, using the bar technique, to no avail. Folks actually spend $75 - $100 for those little junk "instruments". One can only marvel at the feel of classic workmanship, found in Leo Fender instruments, after attempting to play music on $75 guitars. The Fender 1000, equipped with 4 knee levers, plugged into a "black-faced) Fender amp, could prove to be very entertaining, under the right conditions. Donny, you didn't refer to the cables beneath the Fender 1000. The type that L.F. used is different than what is available in hardware stores. Could you explain why?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Jul 2006 8:50 am

Bill, is this a test?

Teacher, I lost my textbook, and my dog ate my homework!

Anyway, the cable used was 3/32", which usually miked out to around .087"...not exactly a standard size. Also, it had a special coating, both for lubricity and solderability. Lastly, it was a "7X27" weave (ultra fine wires), for flexibility, and to prevent it from taking a "set", which might cause slop in the feel of the pull. Tensile strength of the cable was close to 1,000 pounds, so broken cables were a rarity, though they would sometimes come loose where they were soldered at the brass ferrules, or at the turnbuckles.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 21 Jul 2006 9:56 am

Donny, if you don't know the details for the cables just tell us

This is why I love this forum!

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Jul 2006 11:05 am

Donny,

Thanks Donny for the valuable information. Not everyone who owns or plays a Fender 1000 would be aware of small details involving mechanical issues. I respect your knowledge and would enjoy reading more on the subject.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 21 Jul 2006 2:24 pm

I for one, know little as Donny does. I too have learned from Donny on a few issues regarding Fender. Thank you Donny. I always said you belonged with Fender.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Jul 2006 3:45 pm

Thanks Jody, I take that as a very high compliment!

One of these days, I'm gonna get me another 1000, and do some 8-string woodsheddin' to have a little fun, and get together with all the other "cableholics".

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 22 Jul 2006 4:11 pm

Jody C.,

Could you make known some of the ensuing problems heard from those who had purchased Fender 1000's? Mechanical issues that were resolved by your expertise would be of great interest. Have you ever heard of the aircraft cable pulling out of the pulleys? Did those who assembled the 1000 always use the same solder? The composition of the solder would indeed be information that would be useful. Thanks... [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 22 July 2006 at 05:16 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 23 Jul 2006 12:57 pm

Bill
To answer question #1. No I have never had any experience as you ask. #2 No problem with pulleys etc. Question #3 I am not aware of what type or composition solder was used.

Hope this helps. These Fender guitars were built rock solid to last and perform and in time, they would be mechanically obsolete. But still desireable to many.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 July 2006 at 01:58 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 23 Jul 2006 7:06 pm

I have owned a couple of Fender PSGs in past years, and although I'm not a fan of the cables... the Tone of these instruments was awesome! Bright, sparkling Fender tone. There's nothing like it. I guess the pickup has a lot to do with it. Also, these guitars didn't have much sustain (as compared to modern PSGs) and that contributed to the unique Fender sound.

One word sums it up: MOONEY!

Durability? Yes, built like a tank.
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 23 July 2006 at 08:10 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 23 Jul 2006 7:40 pm

I can tell you one problem with the early model that had a solid bar bridge, if you can't guess.

The strings sliding back and forth the steel bar bridge would over time saw slots into the bridge, as well as wearing themselves out and breaking where they slid back and forth on the bridge. The later models had roller bridges (and nuts? Not sure) but mine had neither, causing this kind of wear on bridge, nut, and strings.

Still, I'd sure love to have that old 1000 back today.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 23 July 2006 at 08:41 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 23 Jul 2006 8:28 pm

String breakage at the bridge is really more dependant on any burrs on the bar than the fact there are no rollers. With a decent lubricant I like Teflon) the strings should be fine. It also takes a LOT of "sawing" to groove one of those bars - I have several 50's bridges and not one has a groove in it, and they were all on "player" guitars. The breakage point seems to b more common at the changer or hog ring, and the hog rings can be bent a bit to lessen the strain.

Seen a lot of "dive bombing" trem Strats over the years with no saddle wear, and no breaks there either. Roller bridges came..and rather quicklt went...in that arena due to tonal compromises, and the fact that i turned out they really didn't make a difference as far as breakage OR wear.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 24 Jul 2006 3:58 am

I feel the need to "coin" a new descriptive phobia. Acknowledging the feedback to date, I am prompted to call it "Fenderphobia". Part of the fear caused by past experiences with cables beneath the Fender 1000 and the 3rd string breakage near the so-called "hog hooks". Of course, due to the many mechanical movements found in the Fender 1000,
the maintenance required the owner to pay attention to correct adjustments. I'm aware of many untold experiences, good or bad, that could prove to interest the avid reader concerned with the development of the pedal steel guitar.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 24 Jul 2006 4:21 am

Well whatever you say Jim. I only know about my own and that of a good friend who played his several nights a week since it was new.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 24 Jul 2006 5:41 am

I owned and played two 1000's over a period of about 9 years, and I don't recall a significant string breakage problem.

I didn't use an E9 tuning in those days, but I sure "stomped" on those first two or three strings a lot while hunting for that Mooney sound!

------------------
<img height=100 width=70 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/Scan10095.jpg>
www.genejones.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 24 Jul 2006 8:25 am

Could someone educate me about the differences between the number models 400, 800 and 1000?

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 24 Jul 2006 8:44 am

bOb
I'll take a shot at your question. The 400 had a single neck and 4 pedals string length 23 inches, case and legs included.
The 800 had a single neck with 6 pedals 23 string length case and legs included.
The 1000 had 8 pedals and 23 string length. Each of these models were available with up to 10 pedals at extra cost of $50.00 retail per pedal. These were all sunburst. No Custom colors were available. The early model blond guitars were no longer available
This information is from 1969.
The 2000 had two 10 string necks 10 pedals and case and legs included 23" string length as well. I can post the retail prices if need be. Plus cost to dealer.

Hope this helps. Most 400's were also available with up to 6 pedals and 8 pedals but few orders were with 8 pedals.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 24 July 2006 at 09:46 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 24 Jul 2006 10:47 am

Gene,

Do you know the years when your Fender 1000's were built? Jody's quoted bridge span of 23 inches seems to differ from the 24 1/4" I've measured on 50's models. Do you recall the string length on the instruments that you referred to?
I was able to chase some Mooney sounds on my 1000 by placing a .017 plain string at the 8th position. I miss hearing that string pull into a warbling 7th.