Shobud Pro 1 tuning - clueless

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 2:59 pm

Just received a Pro 1, and it went together and tuned up fine. But I can't seem to adjust the pedals. The 5th string nylon tuning nut, for example, simply spins the rod that runs through the 1st and 3 pedal bellcranks - and a pair of barrels behind the bellcranks spin right along with it.

This guitar must tune differently from anything I've ever seen. Is there a guide or mini-manual anyone has put together on the 'net on how to adjust one of these things?

I'm completely stuck. None of the 3 pedals or 4 knees are set correctly, and they don't work like other guitars I've seen.

Thanks in advance -

Jim

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 19 Aug 2006 3:16 pm

Jim, I think there should be a tiny spring on the barrels & an end is supposed to stick through & catch on the bellcrank as you turn the rod. there are threads on the barrel that screw in & out to shorten the rod's length & thereby tune the guitar. Maybe someone with a better knowlege will jump in with a little better explanation to help you. I had a ShoBud crossover years ago (1968) with this "rack & barrel" type tuning. barrels threads might be set up & take a little coaxing! a picture might be worth a thousand words![This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 19 August 2006 at 04:17 PM.][This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 19 August 2006 at 04:18 PM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 19 Aug 2006 3:35 pm

Jim, check out this thread: Click Here

There is a manual in this thead towards the end. [This message was edited by Curt Langston on 19 August 2006 at 04:54 PM.]

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 19 Aug 2006 3:36 pm

Jim, email me, I may be able to get you cookin'.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 4:29 pm

I'll email you James.

The manual has you start wih the nylon tuners - but these just spin the rods.

The other thread has to do with a rack and barrel system. This isn't one of those, it has normal bellcranks, but barrels on some rods. Prblems are the 4 and 5 raises - the nuts just spin the rods. I can't see anything on the barrels that would kep the rods in place - they're just attached to the rods, not the body or any other part of the guitar.

I tried adjusting it by the pedal stop but that can't be right - no way to fine tune it, and on the C pedal only one of the two strings can be tuned.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 19 Aug 2006 5:22 pm

My Bud has the R&B tuning. You may have to hold part of the barrel with your fingers while you turn the nylon to tune.

Tony

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 5:31 pm

I've looked with a flashlight and magnifying glass - I just don't see any physical part that would keep the rods from turning, since they are not hooked to bellcranks.

The barrle nearest the changer on the 5th string rod has a second srew on the small portion - the others only have a screw on the large section. I don't know if that means anything. The nylon nuts are also marked on the ends in red. Any particular "steel code" I'm not aware of?

I keep poking around and looking...but nothing is making sense.

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 19 Aug 2006 5:36 pm

Jim it sounds like the springs aren't catching the crank or the barrels are threaded all the way in. Try this in this order on 1 barrel, if it works repeat on the others.
1. Loosen the allen set screw in the barrel.
2. Slide the barrel off of the pull rod.
* If a burr is on the pull rod from the set screw it may take a little working to slide it off.
3. Screw the 2 barrel halves apart, lube and screw the 2 halves (Thread Half Way) back together. The little spring should be sticking through a little hole in the back half of the barrel.
4. Slide the barrel onto the pull rod untill the spring just touches the crank. Tighten the set screw.
5. Depress the pedal and tune the pull.
If it still won't tune to pitch check the pedal travel.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 5:40 pm

I can see how to get an end one off - but what about the ones that have that ...I don't know what it's called - the thing with the hole in it attached to a brass cylinder the rod runs through?

Also - what am I trying to do? I'm not savvy on how barrels in this configuration work...I can't see where they would have any affect at all. Is there an explanation of this sytem anywhere? I'm better at mechanics when I understand the purpose/motion.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 19 August 2006 at 06:42 PM.]

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 19 Aug 2006 5:45 pm

Jim,
You put the pictures up while I was typing a reply. I can see a couple of the barrels that are screwed all the way in. Fold the knee lever out of the way so we can see the cranks good on the 2nd pedal. It looks like it don't have any barrels for those pulls and I see some non stock cranks too. The big brass things are just a swivel, but they may have a set screw in them if the barrels are missing.[This message was edited by Colby Tipton on 19 August 2006 at 06:54 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 5:56 pm

Is this what you're looking for?

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 19 Aug 2006 5:58 pm

Jim,
Phone number removed Coop has got this one under control now.[This message was edited by Colby Tipton on 19 August 2006 at 07:25 PM.]

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 19 Aug 2006 6:04 pm

Jim..This looks like a Maverick body. Can you E-Mail me your phone # ? Coop

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 19 Aug 2006 6:20 pm

Jim,
You have the sure enough expert to guide you now. I think Coop will fix you up.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 19 Aug 2006 6:28 pm

Yes, The Coopster will dial you in, pronto.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 19 Aug 2006 6:42 pm

bring it on down Jim- we'll take care of it

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 19 Aug 2006 10:06 pm

I'm puzzled as to why it has nylon tuners, and under-body tuners as well.

I have under-body (barrel) tuners on my Pull/Release steel, because the rods are hooked to the changer fingers.

[This message was edited by richard burton on 19 August 2006 at 11:07 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Aug 2006 10:32 pm

Richard - it's a single raise/single lower Pro-1 changer. At least the 4th string needs two lowers; I don't know why the rest of it is there - and I can't get it to work or figure out HOW it works, so that's the question.

Coop explained a bit on the phone, but when I got a couple barrels removed as he suggested to check for little wires, I found one with, one without, and the one without has a nystery setscrew on the wrong part of the barrel. We are going to try to touch base again tomorrow, but I'm open to ideas.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 20 Aug 2006 12:03 am

Looking at your photos again, Jim, it seems to me that the barrels serve to fine tune the pedal pulls, because, for example, one rod is pulled by both the A pedal and the C pedal.

I've been wrong before, and I'm probably wrong now, but try this:

If you take the fifth string, for example, and wind off the barrel associated with the A pedal, then press pedal C, tune the fifth up to its raised pitch (C#)with the nylon tuner, release pedal C, press pedal A, tune the fifth up to C# using the barrel that you have previously slackened off.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 20 Aug 2006 2:03 am

Looking at your photos again, Jim, it seems to me that the barrels serve to fine tune the pedal pulls, because, for example, one rod is pulled by both the A pedal and the C pedal.

I think Richard is correct.

I suggest you take the guitar to either Blackie or Jim P, and let them set it up, and more important, have them show you how to do it yourself if/when the pedals go out of tune.

I'm glad you're seeing that 10 strings are better than 8. (Eventually you'll see that for the kind of music you wish to play, 12 strings are better than ten.)

I think that this instrument will be a transition for you, and sooner or later you will want something with a 12 stings and more modern changer.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Aug 2006 6:31 am

Richard - tried that last night and the barrels spin with the rod. I had been under the impression from Coop that the barrel wire "caught" somewhere and stopped the spin, but that doesn't seem to be the case, except the "A" pedal barrel for the 5th string will close up when you turn the nylon tuner, but not loosen when you turn the other way.

It loooks to me as if the rods ARE supposed to turn, with the barrels opening and closing with the nylon tuner adjustment...but what that accomplishes is very confusing and certainly not very obvious. Neither are the brass cylinder with chrome loos ta the rods run through; the loops seem to have no purpose at all!

Anyway, if the wires ARE supposed to "catch on something, there are two issues: 1) not enough wire on all but one, and that one only "catches" one direction, and 2) WHAT are they supposed to catch on? I would think there would be a hol for the wire to insert into, but if there is I can't see it - even with my "printed circuit board" glasses (3x power).

IF I can get it going it will serve my purposes fine (if I can find a cheap lift kit - I don't fit under it...or anything but Fenders...and need at least a 2" lift).

I KNEW Mike would bust me!

But Mike, I have to burst your bubble - I got this only to go through tab and video stuff people have sent me, and then adapt it to the B6 Fender. For what I do the B6 9/2 "Sneaky" setup covers the territory brilliantly, and with far superior tone (which is critical to me...I am totally anal about the sound, and the high-end emphasis of overwound pickups and the E9 tuning are just not "me"). but, at least I'll get familiar enough to play Red River Valley for you (that was a JOKE!).

Unfortunately, trying to get to Jm or Blackie's right now is timewise a problem and I can't afford to have the thing rebuilt or even serviced right now. It was supposed to be playable, and all I budgeted for was a lift kit. So I'm going to have to fix it myself, with some guidance. I like that better anyway - I can build a 400 blindfolded now, and for that very reason.

Anyway, hopefully later today we can figure out how to "rewire" the barrels or come up with a plan "B", and I can find out why the ones that DO have wires don't stop...plus I still need to understand what the guitar is doing with the barrels and those chrome-loop things that are hooked to air.

FWIW - the good part is it's very "woody" sounding. Very round, fat tone, exactly what I was hoping for until I can have Jerry Wallace make me a special pickup to spec - I have a couple of pickup ideas to make it sound more like what I want...although I do have to admit this isn't half bad, And the weight is wonderful with my bad back - just need to find a lightweight rolling keyboard bag/case or something for it (a plywood case woud be totally wrong - need to keep the weight down a lot). Also really nicely-figured wood, and the Desert Rose fretboard that was installed is much nicer looking to me than the dated (IMO) card-suit Shobud ones.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 20 Aug 2006 9:44 am

Jim what you need to do is get a pair if vice grips, and grab the rods (one at a time of course) and have somebody hold them steady while you get under the guitar adjust the fine adjusting screw as shown in the diagram in the following post.

It's a major pain in the ass, and will probably take you longer to tune the guitar than it would to drive to Blackie's or Jim's but it will work.

Another person who can set it up for you is Chris Allen Burke, who lives in Signal Hill, just off the 405 Freeway. That shouldn't be too far from you. Chris doesn't have a steel guitar shop like Jim and Blackie, (he does the work in his garage,) but he knows what he's doing, and can definately get your guitar to play in tune.

Ir you can retrofit the guitar with a better changer, (and I'm not sure it can be done) you'll be destroying whatever vintage collectable value the guitar has, but it will make your life a whole lot easier.

------------------
Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
-----------
My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 20 August 2006 at 11:46 AM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 20 Aug 2006 10:41 am

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Aug 2006 3:05 pm

Mike & Richard - actually, it doesn't lock against the rod like that - the rod is supposed to turn, and a small wire hits the two-hole puller comressing (or expanding) the barrel to adjust the tuning. The whole mess was the little wire nibs that hold the barrel in place against the two-hole puller were broken off, apparently but someone who TRIED to lock it all down. I took apart the barrels, rebent the springs so the wire extended 3/32 or so beyond he end of the barrels and then everything seemed to work fine. A few hitches and I still need to make some calls to do some minor tweaking, more for feel than anything else - but it plays in tune now and all the pedals/levers work.

I went ahead and worked on it myself with the spring-fix....didn't really want to bother anyone on a Sunday afternoon. I got some good advice from James and Coop...and probably got lucky as well.

thanks for all the help guys...I'm sure there will be a few more questions as time goes on to fine-tune little details. But it IS playing, and sure does have a nice fat, woody tone -actually much better sounding than expected; it doesn't have that high-end "whine" that really doesn't fit me real well - much better mids and low end.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Aug 2006 6:07 pm

Way Cool, Jim, they ain't to bad when you get into them a little. Enjoy that TONE!!