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Topic: Reentrant Tuning |
Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 15 Jan 2021 12:12 am |
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It sometimes seems to me that 7 string lap steels were almost made to be tuned reentrant. Tonight I experimented with tuning string 7 to “f†for my otherwise typical low bass G tuning.
fDGDGBD (G7)
I’m diggin’ it so far!
I also tried tuning string 7 down a semitone to E for a G6 tuning. It sounded gorgeous. I just prefer the bluesier vibe of the G7.
Feb2: Added a reentrant g, same g as on string 3. Tuning for 7 strings is gfGDGBD.
Tuning for 6 strings is fGDGBD
Dynamite for blues jamming.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
Last edited by Allan Revich on 4 Feb 2021 11:50 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 25 Jan 2021 1:14 pm
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I came across this thread from 2010 today, about a player named Al Dodge who used almost the same G7 tunings as I do.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=190393
fGDGBD on 6 strings, and gfGDGBD on 7 strings. So while my reentrant tunings are unusual, they are not unheard of. Apparently Freddie Roulette also used a similar tuning (A7 w/reentrant g)
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 4 Feb 2021 3:22 pm Em7 / G6
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6 string = eGBGBD or EGBGBD
7 string = geGBGBD or gEGBGBD
I spent a chunk of today playing these. I’ve lost my dominant 7th, but it’s nice to have a full minor triad and m7, in addition to a phat major chord, and the 6th is a bonus. It’s a bit unconventional, but you get some great Major and minor strums this way, Five adjacent strings for either major or minor chords, with a 6 string tuning.
EDIT: (March 14)
Still hooked on reentrant tunings!
Now G13 on 6 and 7 string
eGBGDF
eGBGBDF
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 2 Aug 2021 11:57 am In case anyone is still interested…
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My most recent foray into the reentrant world,
D/Dm – f D A D F# A D
I’m calling it D over D minor. My chord naming tool calls it D add(m3). Makes it easy to switch between major and minor chords, and gives some interesting possibilities for single string work.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
Last edited by Allan Revich on 3 Nov 2021 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 2 Aug 2021 6:06 pm Re: In case anyone is still interested…
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
My most recent foray into the reentrant world,
D/Dm – f D A D F# A D
I’m calling it D minor over D. My chord naming tool calls it D add(m3). Makes it easy to switch between major and minor chords, and gives some interesting possibilities for single string work. |
This looks like a fun tuning for sure. I always liked the open D with the F# tuned down to F, definitely gives an eery sound at the expense of versatility. Your tuning here fixes that shortcoming of the plain D minor tuning!
Have you experimented with slants using the reentrant strings? I found that with reentrant tunings there are a lot of really cool slant possibilities that can sound like pedals.
These are worth a try IMO if you haven't happened to stumble upon them. I think this is a really cool trick to capitalize on the reentrant string and the minor sound of the tuning.
(I hope the formating after I post this is readable)
minor to diminished(or dom. 7th) to minor
D-----x
A-----5
F#----x
D-----5
A-----x
D-----x
f------5
to
D-----x
A-----5
F#----x
D-----6
A-----x
D-----x
f------7
to
D-----x
A-----10
F#----x
D-----10
A-----x
D-----x
f------10
In major it is also really cool. That same slant would be the same sound as the A+B pedals on a pedal steel.
You can try swapping the F and the F# to use the same tab but in major instead of minor:
I-IV-V AB pedal progression
D-----x
A-----5
F-----x
D-----5
A-----x
D-----x
f#-----5
to
D-----x
A-----5
F-----x
D-----6
A-----x
D-----x
f#-----7
to
D-----x
A-----10
F-----x
D-----10
A-----x
D-----x
f#-----10
to
D-----x
A-----12
F-----x
D-----12
A-----x
D-----x
f#-----12
It's probably worth trying as many random slants using the reentrant string as possible as there is probably a lot more than just those that I found!
Here is a really cool thread that inspired me to think about the potential for these reentrant tuning slants, I am sure there is a ton of yet-to-be-discovered possibilities!
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=214358&highlight= |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 2 Aug 2021 9:09 pm Slants
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I’ve only experimented a bit with slants. Still a struggle for me keeping the intonation right. But I plan to keep working on that.
I appreciate the examples that you provided though. Especially that you’ve taken the time to do them with my tuning. I’ll use them as starting points for practicing.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Ulrich Sinn
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2021 11:28 am
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| Quote: |
Anybody here currently use a reentrant tuning?
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I do.
Reece Anderson tuning on lap, haven't played it in a long time, so my memory might fail me. I think I lost the lowest string in favor of a b7.
And on 8-string acoustic low to high:
g-b-d-e-g-b-d-a. The basic idea is to accommodate a dobro player to handle 2 additional strings.
_________________
Redline Resophonic
MSA Superslide 12-string Reece Anderson tuning, dropped down to B
MSA “The Universal†in Reece Andersons Bb universal tuning, raised to B
TomKat Amp
how I earn a living |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 6 Aug 2021 9:37 pm
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| Ulrich Sinn wrote: |
| Quote: |
Anybody here currently use a reentrant tuning?
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I do.
Reece Anderson tuning on lap, haven't played it in a long time, so my memory might fail me. I think I lost the lowest string in favor of a b7.
And on 8-string acoustic low to high:
g-b-d-e-g-b-d-a. The basic idea is to accommodate a dobro player to handle 2 additional strings. |
What is the re-entry set up? g-B-D-E-G-B-D-A? G-B-D-e-G-B-D-a (whole octave repeats)?
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2021 8:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| It's probably worth trying as many random slants using the reentrant string as possible as there is probably a lot more than just those that I found! |
Since the slants in your examples span 3 strings and then 2, the intonation won’t be true. Is this a case of “close enough for rock n roll� |
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Dan Koncelik
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2021 6:22 pm
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| Would anyone currently playing/experimenting with a re-entrant tuning care to share an example or two of what you're doing with it? Video, sound, tab, etc…anything welcome… |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2021 9:27 pm
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There have been times when I’ve used the high six strings of Don Helms’ E6 tuning and added the “chromatic†strings from E9 to the top. I’ve found this useful on the middle neck of a triple neck. It gives me a sixth tuning with the “Old Hank†but also gives some of those pretty more modern sounds you get on pedal E9, which keeps the E6 from being to redundant on a multineck guitar where I also use C6. If you want to sound like Helms, don’t touch the top two strings. If you want to play pretty harp like “pedal†sounding runs, use the top two strings. I can also get the lower notes of E9 which are not present in this tuning on my outside neck, which I tune to F13/9.
Note regarding the below tuning: I have not done this often and it isn’t a big part of my sound. It’s always been useful when I’ve used it, though.
F# (tuned between pitch of strings 3 and 4)
D# (tuned between pitch of strings 4 and 5)
G#
E
C#
B
G#
E |
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Matt Berg
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2021 4:05 pm Ok, I'll Play
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Pretty much using this exclusively (lo to hi) since I'm too dense to switch between tunings.
g D E G# B E has the minor third where it won't be played by mistake.
My 8 string version omits the reentrant because it doesn't seem necessary with the root in the bass.
E G B D E G# B E
Using it on a Framus with levers allowing retuning, still working on the configuration options.
Similar to what others have come up with, great for playing pop music. I know the minors can be played with C6, but I have not played traditional C6 for a while, I would want to move the A out of the way if I go back to it. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 13 Aug 2021 2:11 am Re: Slants
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
I’ve only experimented a bit with slants. Still a struggle for me keeping the intonation right. But I plan to keep working on that.
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Slants are a major rabbit hole, and behind the bar pulls are another!. Andy Volk's Exploring c6 LS and Rob Haines Mastering Lap steel both give you lots of ways to work these.
Do them as quick hits, not long enough for one audience member to say to another "That sound funny to you?"
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 27 Aug 2021 8:39 am
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| Dan Koncelik wrote: |
| Would anyone currently playing/experimenting with a re-entrant tuning care to share an example or two of what you're doing with it? Video, sound, tab, etc…anything welcome… |
Dan, I don’t have a sound sample ready, but I can fill you in a bit on some of the aspects of reentrant tuning that I found useful. I use reentrant tunings on my 7-strings, not usually on my 6-strings.
1) Useful chord extension “out of the wayâ€. Keeping the 6, 7 or M7 tonally above the root, easy to use, but also easy to avoid. This is what I’m doing with my current tuning, bDADF#AD (EDIT: changed to eGBDGBD).
2) Major/minor swap. Putting the flat 3rd at close hand, but out of the way. For a while I did this with an open D tuning, fDADF#AD
3) Chord “fatteningâ€. I did this when I went from GBDGBD to GBDFAD. Added the string 3 G back again, for gGBDFAD
Finally, for players much more accomplished than I am, it provides options and opportunities that are not possible using linear tunings.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
Last edited by Allan Revich on 2 Sep 2021 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan Koncelik
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2021 6:44 am
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| Quote: |
1) Useful chord extension “out of the wayâ€. Keeping the 6, 7 or M7 tonally above the root, easy to use, but also easy to avoid. This is what I’m doing with my current tuning, bDADF#AD
2) Major/minor swap. Putting the flat 3rd at close hand, but out of the way. For a while I did this with an open D tuning, fDADF#AD
3) Chord “fatteningâ€. I did this when I went from GBDGBD to GBDFAD. Added the string 3 G back again, for gGBDFAD |
Thanks for your detailed reply, Alan. You perfectly outlined what I was really wanting to know: what individual players do with the re-entrant string in their music.
Inspired/instructed by posts on this forum, I've settled (for now) on eGBDgbd for my 7-string resonator. So, basically making dobro open G tuning into a 6th tuning…Yes, your #1 is a primary bonus! A sixth chord with a straight bar, a dominant 7th with a reverse slant plus a fudge on strings 2 and 3. Or none of the above—just leave the 'dressing' on the side  Also, of course, where there are 6ths there are relative minor 7ths and they are the only source of minor chords on a major tuning (without fudges and weird pulls).
Also, since i used to (somewhat) play ukulele, I'm tempted to do small scalar runs alternating between the re-entrant 7th string (e) and strings 3 (g) and 4 (D)…allowing the notes to ring over each other campanella style… |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 28 Aug 2021 10:06 pm
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After experimenting a bit more with bDADF#AD, I decided it didn’t appeal to me as much as eGBDGBD.
Both tunings worked well when playing in major keys, but the G6 tuning sounded better to me than the D6 tuning, when playing in minor keys.
eGBGBD works well on the 6 string.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 3 Nov 2021 6:03 pm Re: In case anyone is still interested…
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
My most recent foray into the reentrant world,
D/Dm – f D A D F# A D
I’m calling it D over Dm. My chord naming tool calls it D add(m3). Makes it easy to switch between major and minor chords, and gives some interesting possibilities for single string work. |
…And, back to this tuning again. Not as versatile as a 6th tuning, but I play mostly blues and this tuning gives me everything I need to easily play minor and major blues. Having the root as the highest and lowest string makes it easy to shift keys at a moment’s notice.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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