Super Finger" Tech Talk

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 18 Jul 2005 9:17 pm

Ok Sho-bud Lovers; I took some closer shots of the John Coop "Super Finger" that I now have here in my room.
This is the most Genious Design of anything I've ever seen in ME life>Wow.

First you will notice the the Ball-Bearing Roller from the lower arm that pushes the top piece(finger top)> That right there alone; is the most Major fix of the Sho-bud Finger EVER. There is no more wear that can happen and create a groove in that top piece that happens and IS happening on the original fingers; that create tension and binding movement. Also notice the Genious Pivots that John can explain more; but there is absolutely no side to side slop and they move freely and in perfect motion. Also notice the pin to hold the string and that pin will NEVER come out and slipping a ball end in a slot that is extremely hard to do in the originals and also having the cut out in the originals Break...is a thing of the past. Also notice a set screw on the other side of the pin on the finger top; that actually holds the top pivot/rivot in place from Any side to side motion and the amount of slack that is prefered> now that is just the most perfect design to have an absolute Friction/binding/wobbling/slopping/catching/breaking free Finger that equates to less drop in Axle flex and less string breakage and less tuning problems of any original Sho-bud out there > PERIOD>HANDS DOWN>
John R. Coop Sr. is certainly a MASTER Tool Maker Machinist and please John if you would; further discuss what goes into this Super Finger; as opposed to the slapping together of molded or cut out pieces of metal with the most aweful rivots ever made; that were/are the original Sho-bud Fingers.
Ricky

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Jul 2005 4:04 am

Ricky..[or anyone else with an opinion on this question].. I have pretty much stopped playing Buds because of the problems getting complete full tone lowers out of some of the changers.
Do you think this changer finger will pull down a good clean COMPLETE full tone??... Maybe John Coop can answer if no one else is sure.

I always considered this a big problem with Buds as my copedent lowers several strings a FULL tone rather than half tone.

I have fought Buds for years playing with string gauges, machining changer fingers to increase "travel"etc.... This would be a nice "breakthtough" as far as Bud changer efficiency was concerned!... Those fingers are INCREDIBLY well engineered, and beautifully made!!!bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 19 July 2005 at 05:11 AM.]

Jon Zimmerman · Post by **Jon Zimmerman** » 19 Jul 2005 6:07 am

Sure looks to be a quantum leap of stability/capability over the originals..undeniably, Coop is da man.
Farris C., I know you've heard of this in the works, and have been occupied recently, but ya gotta see these--wonderful!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Jul 2005 7:02 am

It is certainly great to see this potential occurring for bringing all those beautiful old Buds up to modern mechanical standards. This changer appears to actually surpass most modern ones. Thanks for bringing this stuff to our attention, Ricky. And, John, I hope you have a long, long run making these parts.

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 19 Jul 2005 7:31 am

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys! Bob...Yes, these will go a whole tone with room to spare because now "ALL" of the slop has been taken out of the assembly. Any lost motion or slop in the assembly is going to result in not being able to lower or raise the way it should. When the things were origionally made, the 3 parts were grabbed up, the rivets stuck in holes in the pull finger and the raise/lower bars, then "Coined" or smashed on the back side of the rivets. If they came out snug, ok. If not, they got tossed in the box anyway! With mine, you can actually adjust the clearance between the raise bar and the pull finger by means of a 6-32 set screw that goes through the finger and locks the rivet in place at the desired clearance. On the rivet where the raisebar & lower bar pivots, there is a 6-32 "Stainless Steel" button head cap screw with a nylon washer under it to adjust the clearance. With the nylon washer under the BHSC you don't have any friction between the BHCS and the lower bar. Simple, isn't it! I use a 1/16" Stainless Steel pin to attach the string eye because any of you that have a D-10 Sho~Bud with the "CAP PISTOL" fingers can attest to when trying to attach the low bass C6 strings, it's a real pain in the ..well, you know where!!!!!!!!! Given the age of these Sho~Buds from the mid 70's on, you can be sure that most of these origional finger assemblies are "WORN OUT"! Hope this info helps. Coop

Don Burrows · Post by **Don Burrows** » 19 Jul 2005 7:46 am

I have used a ball bearing, on the lowering arm, in my changers for the last 5 years. Makes for a smooth action.

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Don Burrows
Builder of BSG Steel Guitars

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Jul 2005 8:22 am

. Oh, Geeez, now I have to start looking for a Sho bud again!!bob

Joseph De Feo · Post by **Joseph De Feo** » 19 Jul 2005 9:00 am

Looks like another BIG improvement from
our Sho-Bud dream team

I bought a set of
these Superfingers for my Pro II Custom, based on the quality I'd seen in his other
work on the Forum, and a few conversations
we had. Now that I see these Superfingers,
I can't wait to drop them in. John and Ricky
have been generous with their help, as it's
my first disassembly. So far there have been no problems.

I will continue to
post my progress, and let everyone know
my results with these Superfingers. I am
a still-wet-behind-the-ears, newbie, so if
I can put these in, anybody can.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 19 Jul 2005 9:27 am

John brings up an interesting point:
Attaching heavy gauge strings (like the bottom two of C6 or a U-12) is a pain.

Rather than hijack this post

I'll start a new one. If you're interested, look for
ShoBud: Problems mounting large strings

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 19 Jul 2005 10:24 am

I like the principle of having a roller-bearing where previously it was metal-to-metal contact.
However, I have one reservation:
Is the pin that the roller-bearing is mounted on strong enough for the job it has to do?
From the pictures, the diameter of this axle looks a little flimsy.

Sorry for the negativity, but as a former designer/builder of steels, I feel my input is valid.
R B

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 19 Jul 2005 10:58 am

Richard..That is a hardened .125 diameter dowel pin that is Tig welded using stainless steel rod to the back side of the lower bar. The same method I used on "Big Jim Murphy's" Pro II "8 YEARS AGO"!!!!!!! Coop

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jul 2005 11:14 am

And I can attest that 8 years from when John Coop made those fingers for Murph's Sho-bud; that they perfermed flawlessly as I played that very Sho-bud for 8 months up until Murph's passing.
And here is proof that the rollers in the Super Finger will last that long and NOBODY plays the pedal steel as hard as I do and certainly no where close to as hard as Murph played/stomped on it.

Hope that answers your Question Richard.
Ricky

Don Burrows · Post by **Don Burrows** » 19 Jul 2005 11:51 am

I also use a 1/8" stainless rivet to hold the ball bearing to the lowering arm and I have removed a changer after 2 years of playing and everything was tight and absolutely no wear on the finger at all or any other parts of the changer.

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Don Burrows
Builder of BSG Steel Guitars

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jul 2005 11:58 am

Hey that's way cool Don. I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with your BSG Steel guitar. Can you direct me to a website you may have with more info and pictures of the mechanics you build/make??? Love to see some stuff.
...and again; I'm sorry if your info passed by me somewhere on here...I don't look at everything...but you striked an interest.
Ricky

Don Burrows · Post by **Don Burrows** » 19 Jul 2005 12:58 pm

Ricky, I just got my website up and running about a month ago and just got it posted ubder the Steel guitar Manufactures on this forum links. Here is the address: http://bsgsteelguitars.com

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Don Burrows
Builder of BSG Steel Guitars

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 19 Jul 2005 2:14 pm

Hey Rick. Is that a maple leaf on your Bud?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 19 Jul 2005 4:34 pm

John, check your e-mail, I have a question or two about these fingers!
Japanese Maple leaf ain't it, Ricky?

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 19 Jul 2005 5:52 pm

It looks like a Columbian maple leaf to me!

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 19 Jul 2005 7:35 pm

good to see that the whole tone lower problem has been addressed. I went through some pains with that on the Super I had.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 19 Jul 2005 9:00 pm

Thanks John and Ricky
for answering my query.
I have a tendency to
'over engineer' the things that
I make.
As that pin has lasted
many years without problems
in a professional playing
environment,
then I think that my doubts
are unfounded.
As the advert used to say:
The man from Del Monte says "Yes"!!

R B

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 20 Jul 2005 12:00 pm

Hey Way cool Don; I mainly wanted to see your changer finger also; and Wala you have a picture of it and it looks real good man...>why here it is now..

Buck that is the late "Big Jim Murphy" Sho-bud and that is a "Pot" leaf on the front; as Dick Miller did that whole refinish job for Murph before his passing also.
And Murph had one of them leafs on is Bethal also; and the cover that was made for his steels had it stiched on the front...ha...so when you cover up the steel; it's still there man....ha.
That was one of Big Jim's trade marks; but don't let it fool ya....Jim quit all that stuff many many years ago(God rest his soul).
So has EVERYONE ordered their "Super fingers" yet???? If you haven't; and you email me: "Ricky I can't seem to get this or that to do this or that and this isn't working right and bla bla bla" I'm going to Yell at you...ha...and say "I told ya so; it's right there in plain English"...ha.
Ricky

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 20 Jul 2005 1:52 pm

John or Ricky how much are these fingers for a
super pro.
Thanks

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 20 Jul 2005 2:19 pm

Chuck...I sent you an E-Mail. Coop

Leon Campbell · Post by **Leon Campbell** » 20 Jul 2005 3:06 pm

Hay John,will you email me a price for these
super fingers for a super pro.Thanks, Leon

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 20 Jul 2005 3:22 pm

This is just one of the many reasons that this Forum is so valuable. Just think about it. What used to be a huge problem for the vintage Sho-Buds, is now rectifiable! New, high tech fingers for your old Buds. Like getting a changer transplant. Amazing.

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I'd rather be opinionated, than apathetic!