Nasville numbering question

[Patrick Fleming]

HI,

How do you notate a chord that is out side of the key? Specifically when your borrow the dominate 7 chord from the key of the 5 chord. Say you are in the key of C and you want a D7 chord (D major with a C added). How do i notate that in the number system? Thanks.

Patrick

[Howard Parker]

I'd use "II7" (Roman Num 2, subscript 7), or whatever script you use to define a major chord/dom 7.

[Patrick Fleming]

Thanks, that seems reasonable...

[Jeremy Reeves]

Howard has the easiest to read answer. I might like to see it as V/V (the 5 of the 5 chord)

[Larry Hobson]

(Key of C)-----C -1 D -2. E - 3. and so on. So D is 2. D7 is just simply a 2 with a numeral 7 . Written however you want , just a small 7 at the upper right of the 2 . The D minor would be a 2 with a m to it's right and so on . Don't see the need to cloud the number system any more than this. Please correct me if there is something simpler.

[Bill Cunningham]

If per chance you want a C bass with the 2 chord (D7) put a line line under the 2 subscript 7 and a 1 under the line.

[Peter Freiberger]

https://nashvillenumbersystem.com/ An excellent book by an accomplished Nashville player.

[Chris Brooks]

I prefer to use the Arabic numerals rather than Roman. Just easier for me to read 37 than III7.

BTW: If the tune modulates up a whole tone for example, I write New 5. Then continue with numerals in that new key.

[manny escobar]

Hi Chris, I like your idea "NEW 5" for modulating.

[Bo Borland]

"How do you notate a chord that is out side of the key?"

In the key of C , D is not "outside" the key of C it is the 2 note or chord.

[Patrick Fleming]

In the key of C the 2 chord is a D minor, and I am looking to notate a D Major with a Dominate 7th added.
I am currently liking the idea of 2M7 with 7 a super script (as a power)which I think is a combination of things mentioned above. Thanks again for the help.

[Howard Parker]

Many would interpret 2M7 as a maj 7 chord. Not what you're looking for. Plenty of precedent for 2/7. No need to make up new stuff.

h

[Patrick Fleming]

If that is the standard then I will go with it... after all the points is to have people understand what you mean.

Thanks

[Bo Borland]

D is the 2 of C regardless of it's extension.

[Jeremy Reeves]

D is the 2 of C regardless of it's extension.

he's asking about a chord, not just a note

[Bo Borland]

Makes no difference if it’s a note or a chord. It’s still a 2.
If it’s a D7 it’s a 2-7

[J D Sauser]

Major 7th as marked with a triangle instead of the "7" or with an "M7" or both the triangle and the "7" after the Chord Pos:
II M7 or
II "triangle" or
II "triangle" 7

Dom. 7th are marked:
II 7th or II dom 7

those who use the "Triangle" for the M7 usually only use "7" for Dom 7th.

A D chord with a C added is a Ddom7th
A D chord with a C# added is a DM7

[Dave Mudgett]

Wikipedia has a pretty concise discussion here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_Number_System

Technically, I like lower-case Roman numerals for minor, upper-case Roman numerals for major, and if I have the symbols availble like the superscripted triangle for maj7, superscript o for diminished, and so on, great. But I (and obviously many others) find it tedious to type that stuff. And a bunch of people I deal with have a hard enough time dealing with numbers anyway and are thrown reading Roman numerals on a chart. So I normally just use Arabic numerals 1-7, M for major, m for minor, write dom7 as 7, maj7 as M7 or maj7, minor7 as m7, dim/dim7/aug, and so on. So 2M7 is a 2 chord maj7, 2[sub]7[/sub] or 2[sup]7[/sup] is a 2 chord dominant 7, and so on.

Many would interpret 2M7 as a maj 7 chord. Not what you're looking for. Plenty of precedent for 2/7. No need to make up new stuff.

h

Most people I know reserve slash notation to annotate bass notes in a chord - e.g., A/E would be an A chord with E=5 in the bass, or 2nd inversion. So I (and most people I deal with) would interpret 2/7 as a II chord with 7 in the bass unless told otherwise.

The old quote - "That's the great thing about standards - there are so many of them." - certainly applies here.

BTW - this is not about Pedal Steel, moving to Music.

[J D Sauser]

I see a lot of lower case/upper case for minor/Major.
some use a minus sign "-" for minor ii-9th for D minor 9th in C.
IF "m" is in lower case, it's 99% of the cases meant minor and "M" stood for Major.

now for the b7th (dom. 7th / flat 7th)... it's almost always "7th" or "dom. 7th" (the Bb to the C) whereas M7 or "triangle"7 always or in 99% of the cases has meant Major 7th (the B to the C).
But then, minor 7ths which typically have a FLAT 7th are always written "m7".

Duh!
Sadly, since Music "Theologues" try to look down on the number system (which does NOT have it's origins in Nashville and is USED in formal musical theory) the system has never been submitted to an orderly nomenclature.

It can get somewhat of a " soup" since you have numbers for the PROGRESSION position with sharps (#) and flats (b's) and then chord details (tensions, alterations etc) which can have #'s and b's too like the infamous F#m7,b5 (often in a VII (B to C or F# to G) position: VIIm7,b5 (usually leading into a VIdom7th (a fourth up), which in turn swings around to a IIm7/V. (further fourths up))


When I "write" a chart, I try to make it a point to clearly identify the Major 7th TENSION as an M7 or "triangle 7th", so that the Dom. and minor 7ths ("m7") are clearly understood as having a flat 7th.
Some don't exercise that curtesy, and one has to guess by logic or trying, which kind'a defies the logic behind conveying "information" in writing.

... J-D.

[Jerry Overstreet]

You want to write charts that are easy and quick to read for the musicians.

Example using arabic numbers which I prefer.

1_____#5⁷_____ 1______6⁷

2⁷_____5⁷______1_____#5⁷____1

In the Nashville Number System a slash designates a split measure:

1_____ 6______1/5______1

In the above case ea. measure gets 4 beats except for the 3rd measure which has 2 beats on the 1 and 2 beats on the 5. If the split measure does not have equal beats on ea. number, it can be shown with dots above ea. number designating how many counts on ea. split number. Some write split chords enclosed in a box.
... .
1/5



A chart with a lead chord having a different bass note would be written with the bass note underneath the lead:

1
5

[Bill Cunningham]

Get the excellent book Peter recommended. Lots of variety in how to write “Nashville Numbers” but one consistency is they are ARABIC numbers not Roman or ii, etc. Just sayin....

[Skip Edwards]

Major 7th as marked with a triangle instead of the "7" or with an "M7" or both the triangle and the "7" after the Chord Pos:

And, for our Canadian brethren...a 7 with a slash thru it usually means a Maj7.
At least it seems to out here in CA.
Just sayin'...

Hi Bill...

[Tucker Jackson]

And, for our Canadian brethren...a 7 with a slash thru it usually means a Maj7.

You learn something new every day. A slash through it? I've always read that as "I wrote down the wrong chord. Don't play that."

[J D Sauser]

You want to write charts that are easy and quick to read for the musicians.

Example using arabic numbers which I prefer.

1_____#5⁷_____ 1______6⁷

2⁷_____5⁷______1_____#5⁷____1

In the Nashville Number System a slash designates a split measure:

1_____ 6______1/5______1

...

1
5

How do you discern between Major7th and Dom7th?

... J-D.

[Jerry Overstreet]

The small 7 top right of the number is the designation for dom 7 in the Nashville Number System.

If it were a maj 7, it would be shown as one of these small case instead. maj7, M7, Δ