Correct material for Sho-Bud pedal shaft

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Nov 2020 6:24 am

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The shaft is fine but I'm considering adding a pedal and need a longer shaft. Is this Tractor Supply rod ok or should I get something more refined (from McMaster or....you tell me....)? It looks a bit funky.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 28 Nov 2020 8:16 am

you'll like working with cold rolled or some 303 stainless much better. How much do you need. not sure I have any 1/2 round here (sounds big, 5/16 or 3/8 is more common for cross shafts), but i'll look and send some to you if I do.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Nov 2020 8:23 am

Thanks Ross. And sorry. Poor description. Not cross shaft. This is the axle for the pedals down on the pedal rack.
I found a better price at Lowes but I don't know terminology to know if it's the same stuff. "Plain hot rolled steel, solid round rod." And there's the same stuff (I think), zinc plated.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 28 Nov 2020 9:08 am

Gotcha. Hot rolled is messy stuff with a not so smooth surface in most cases. Some hardware stores have metal assortments that include cold rolled (much smoother surface).

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Nov 2020 9:18 am

Now we're talking.
Yeah -- the photo sure looks pitted. I've got my doubts about the stuff. I may go ahead and try it (instant gratification, picking it up at Lowes, $7 for at 3 footer) but it may need an upgrade down the road.
Thanks. Metallurgy is a final frontier for me. Lots to learn.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 28 Nov 2020 9:30 am

Check your local ace hardware first. Pretty certain our local Ace has cold rolled and they list it online.

Kelcey ONeil · Post by **Kelcey ONeil** » 28 Nov 2020 10:20 am

Pretty sure I’ve a piece of 1/2 drill rod with a ground finish, I could send you a piece if you’d let me know how long.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Nov 2020 10:54 am

Ross -- not only is my local Ace a really good store --- it is family owned for, like, 100 years, and I love doing business with them. It just never occurred to me. Thanks.
And Kelcey -- that is most kind of you.
Because I am impatient, I hopped in the car before either of your last posts came over and got the hot roll at Lowes. I will proceed with it and stash your posts (Plan B & C) away in case I need them.
Thank you both.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 28 Nov 2020 1:17 pm

Plain old hardware store stuff is fine.. I have added pedals to several old Buds using it.. Its a little black and rough looking, but polishes nicely with some steel wool,.. I clean it up, add a bit of oil or some Lubriplate before assembly and its always worked perfectly for me,,,,

Charley Bond · Post by **Charley Bond** » 28 Nov 2020 2:43 pm

If the shaft won't work like it is, send it to me, I'll turn it to a dimension, sand it & send it back...

I live just east of Tulsa.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 28 Nov 2020 3:01 pm

FWIW, Carter used a nylon rod or acetal or some synthetic composition for their pedal bar. I ordered a piece 3 or 4' long from Grainger for about $5 as I recall.

I used it to extend the pedal rack to add a pedal same as you. The guitar is a 96 and the factory rod showed almost no sign of wear, so it is durable and helps to lighten the load just a touch.

I know you have already sourced your part, but I thought I'd throw this out there for further views or perhaps other tinkerers.

I would assume that it would depend on how the pedals are mounted on the rod and in the rack as to how sturdy the attaching rod needs to be.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Nov 2020 4:05 pm

It's good to know that this steel rod will work ok. Thanks Bob. I expect to cut it to length and then chuck it in my drill press and wet sand it with oil down to....not sure what grit. 400? 600? But it should be pretty nice when I'm done and it's really not bad, as is.
Thanks for the offer, Charley. The new uninstalled pedal fits it nicely so I think I'm in good shape.
Jerry -- that's unexpected. I think of nylon/acetal/delrin as miracle material. I love its hardness, its softness, its slickness...really amazing stuff. But I'd never have thought it could hold up to the abrasion of the pedals. How about that.

Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 1 Dec 2020 12:43 pm

When I extended my ShoBud pedal bar I found 1/2” aluminum rods at Home Depot...I used these on several adding pedals..

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 1 Dec 2020 4:10 pm

Black steel (as we call it over here) polishes up just fine - after a while. I've made changer fingers out of rectangular section. Way cheaper than ground.

I'm not sure about Al for a pedal bar - wouldn't it wear and be difficult to lube? Depends on what the actual pedals are made of, I suppose. For a weight-saving alternative, may I recommend stainless steel tubing?

Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 1 Dec 2020 5:36 pm

Ian, I used it on several Sho-Buds

...no wear, lube is lube!..

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 2 Dec 2020 5:09 am

Aluminum won't wear much either.. We are talking about very limited rotation, low speed, low torque,NO heat , etc... I have used aluminum in place of steel several times on steel guitars in various places, and never had a problem .. I did notice that any lube I used gets a bit blacker that it does with steel, but have never noticed any appreciable wear, and have no hesitation in using aluminum...Its a great weight saver.. Have even used aluminum pull rods at times, Never an issue. Just keep it clean and lubricated.
Look, often the main cause of wear in a mechanical device is heat, NOT friction... There is a reason why so many 50 year old pedal steels are still working well, with all original parts.. Yes there is some friction, some minor rotational wear in pressure points, but NO heat is generated... Keep the parts clean and lubricated, and aluminum can be used in a LOT of places on a pedal steel .... bob

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 Dec 2020 6:04 am

Point taken. I have made pedal rods of aluminium when I ran out of steel, no problem.

Also what I'm forgetting is that if you don't ask, you tend to get 6063 but there are a lot of harder alloys.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 4 Dec 2020 3:25 am

Just in the interest of learning something (because I know NOTHING metallurgically speaking) ....what's the deal with the dirty hands, handling this hot rolled rod I got at Lowes? The barcode tag was messed up and after lots of handling, the poor checkout person's hands looked like an auto mechanic's. Sorry 'bout that! I have to hit the Gojo after touching the thing.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 4 Dec 2020 6:41 am

Jon Light wrote:Just in the interest of learning something (because I know NOTHING metallurgically speaking) ....what's the deal with the dirty hands, handling this hot rolled rod I got at Lowes? The barcode tag was messed up and after lots of handling, the poor checkout person's hands looked like an auto mechanic's. Sorry 'bout that! I have to hit the Gojo after touching the thing.

Black Oxide coating- keeps rust/corrosion at bay for a while after manufacture and during shipping/storage/sale

Clean it off, polish the rod with some steel wool to clean it well and smooth it a bit, then coat it with the lubricant of your choice before installing the pedals.. I like white lithium grease in that spot, but any wet lube will do..Plain old motor oil is fine. It will keep the shaft from rusting, stop squeaks, and keep wear to a minimum,,, Just be aware to a apply a drop or two to the pedals whenever you go through lubing the rest of the guitar... The pedals will always lose to the rod as far as wear is concerned, unless you use an aluminum shaft.. However, remember, there are thousands and thousands of Buds out there still being played daily with original 50-60 year old iron pedal shafts, and aluminum pedals.. Clean the surfaces, apply some lube and assemble, and I can assure you the pedal/rod mechanism will outlive all of us.... bob

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 4 Dec 2020 7:17 am

Bob Carlucci wrote:
Black Oxide coating- keeps rust/corrosion at bay for a while after manufacture and during shipping/storage/sale

Thanks. I had decided that it was loose carbon molecules as a result of it being hot rolled instead of cold. Because I can make up shit like that when I have absolutely no idea about a whole topic of physical science.
I like your explanation lots better.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 4 Dec 2020 11:47 am

Careful sanding in the drill press like that....many (most) chucks are attached on a locking taper only. This system is not designed for side loading at all. I kinda doubt sanding would make it come off but it could.....when a chuck decides to come off its taper...the chances of messing up the taper, the chuck and least importantly one's face...is real!

Yeah, yeah, I know many have done it with no problems....with a taper mounted chuck it's not a question of if, but when.

Don't ask me how I know this!

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 4 Dec 2020 12:08 pm

Ross Shafer wrote:Careful sanding in the drill press like that...........

Wait -- you mean my 35 year old Harbor Freight floor standing drill press is not the finest machine out there?!
I remember another discussion of this issue, not too long ago. You may have been one of the testifiers. It did put some religion in me. What I may do is wear an oven mitt and grab the rod with sanding cloth rather than giving it the shoeshine two-handed pull. I'm sort of sick of my face but not that much.
Thanks Ross.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 16 Jan 2021 8:48 pm

When buying any materials, check out "On-LineMetals.com". You can get anything on earth in one-foot increments up to eight feet. There are now sales people, so they can keep their prices down. Their main outlet is in WA but they also now ship from OH. If you can't find it here, it probably was never made!!!
PRR
PS - They also have Delrin and Nylon, etc.

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 17 Jan 2021 6:44 am

Thanks for the tip, Paul. They now have 6 locations nationwide to ship from.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 17 Jan 2021 7:00 am

Thanks Paul. Yes -- I've done business with them before. At the time of my post, I was looking for info about proper material and whether the stuff I could get at the local stores would work. I was all gung-ho about getting my hands on it (NOW!) and getting to work. Then the project fell by the wayside. If I pick it up again, I'll likely look into getting the right stuff from online metals.

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Correct material for Sho-Bud pedal shaft

Correct material for Sho-Bud pedal shaft

Shat for your Bud.