The Importance of Marketing

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Apr 2006 5:57 am

all of this stuff above is true..and it is always important to have a strong reputation and recognition behind you, hence the handshake..

The only drawback to this approach is that you are pretty much only selling to and within your own community..

Player X sells brand Y to obtain brand Z...

This approach does not reach into new markets, or grow the market..

This is the REPLACEMENT approach to marketing..although it is very effective within our own little world, it is NOT effective outside the box...

This is not to say that some builders desire to stay within this approach..as we know, some do..and that is fine.

Everyone within our community knows and respects those that offer Guitars in this manner..that is not the case in point...

Those that are outside of our community probably have no clue about those particular brands..I think those that are disussing overall marketing are saying just that...

In one sense, this approach can be a bit dangerous as well..

Player A sells brand X that he has been playing a long time, he obtains brand Z..plays it a while..the whole community is
going crazy..then, 6 months later, guess what..they go back to brand X.

How many times have we seen this..?

Or..how many times have we seen a very prominent player who is well known for playing brand Y, all of a sudden show up playing the classic brand X...

when your primary market is within your own community..there may be some risks as well...

Me, I love em' all...

I'm just glad to see anyone playin' I don't really care which brand...

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 15 Apr 2006 7:01 am

I would argue that a one-person outfit is not a business.

I must respectfully disagree. It is a sole proprietorship, and every bit as much a business as any other business. It is not the job of businessmen to "grow the economy", "provide jobs and growth for the masses", "advance the cause of {whatever}", or any other noble aim that politicians smarmingly advance - unless that is their desire. If a businessman gets more satisfaction from doing the job himself and can make a profit and living from it, that sounds great to me. It is an enviable lifestyle that most people in this culture have completely forgotten about, IMO.

On the Dopyera Bros, I'm well aware of the history. The context of that discussion was innovation. I believe the real innovator, John Dopyera, created these brilliant ideas, and then started two companies to produce and market them. That was my point, that innovation doesn't need an abstraction layer, and was one of several examples of a lone or small-team innovator.

I also disagree that it is necessary to force a lot of growth in the steel guitar industry - makers and players - to keep it from dying. This is the modern cultural-economic mantra - grow larger or die - and it is false prophecy, especially in light of the limits to growth that are naturally coming up from increasingly scarce resources. Right now, steel guitar is an important niche instrument. It has a useful identity in many styles of music, and the players are dedicated, musically interesting, and strongly interested in promoting the instrument. There are over 5000 SG Forum members and a lot of other steel players who aren't on here. We emphatically do not have to hype up the steel guitar to make it relevant. A useful pedal steel, the Carter Starter, is available at omnipresent mail order musical outfits like Musician's Friend for well under $1000. Anybody who can afford a decent guitar can easily buy a good quality lap or pedal steel without breaking the bank. To promote the instrument more widely, we need to make it more musically relevant in other styles that don't use it now. IMO, real growth comes from pull-demand, not push-marketing. I think this is our basic point of contention. I don't think there's any significant limitation in the number of pedal steels available out there in radioland. Of course, I'm very happy that companies like Carter are there to provide pedal steels in quantity and at a good price. But this doesn't take away anything from the great individual builders.[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 15 April 2006 at 08:05 AM.]

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 15 Apr 2006 7:22 am

Speaking of marketing heres a plug for Carson Wells, the engraved steel up by the stage at the convention. Monster Tone and good guy.

Ken Metcalf D-10 Carson Wells
San Antonio, TX

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Apr 2006 1:36 pm

But I would submit, that if this is way Steel guitar is going to progress, than it is a dying art form.

Manufacturers may want the steel community to expand because it benefits them financially. From my own point of view, however, we're plenty big right now. We have a national convention, area steel jams all over the country, hundreds of "steel-only" CD'a, dozen or more good companies making steels...why screw up a good thing?

The instrument just ain't never gonna be like straight guitar, or be like it was back in the '20s and '30s. I (for one), am very thankful for that. Part of this instrument's charm and appeal is is exclusivity, which would be totally lost if every hoodle-headed teenager owned one.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Apr 2006 1:55 pm

yeah but I remember, and I was there..I guess it was back in the early 80's , maybe late 70's..when the Urban Cowboy thing struck gold...

Everyone wanted a Country Band with one of them thar sideways Piano looking things...

Steel was making great headway..Folks that never even listened to Country Music were introduced to the Steel..and they didn't run away...

All it took was a John Travolta movie about a Bar, a Bull Ride, a girl and some dancin'...

I suspect many of us were quite busy as there really weren't all that many of us around in downtown backwoods USA..

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Apr 2006 4:18 am

Well Tony, I lived and played through that era too, so maybe it was a geography-dependent thing. In this area, Urban Cowboy stuff was the DEATH KNELL of country music, and the steel guitar. There were just too many famous urban-country groups that didn't have steel, so bands concentrated on the "long hair, hat, and fringes with a drawl" aspect. Had Alabama, the Eagles, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels, or some other really famous urban country group featured a steel regularly, things might have been different. In this area (mid-Atlantic), however, the steeler got canned and was usually replaced by a long-haired fiddle player or a keyboard player.

If any instrument was expendable in urban cowbow music, it was the steel guitar.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 16 Apr 2006 4:45 am

Donny I hear ya..

but

where I was in the Ct, NY area..

I was busy busy busy..so were the other Steelers that were around...

sometimes 4 nights /week...

I'm glad that part is over !

Oh well..

I guess we cancel each other out...

happy Sunday

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 16 Apr 2006 5:51 am

The first ST. Louis show I went to over 10 years ago, I had made up my mind I would buy a second pedal steel (to start my back-up collection!)
I was shocked to see the difference in the way the various steel manufacturers displayed their products.
As anyone who's been to these shows knows, there are some that make you feel welcome to come in, sit down and try one of their steels and there are plenty others that just seem to put them up on a table for display only.
While the qualities and differences of these may certainly vary, last time I checked, I was still a human being! and did not buy from those who ignored me, or made it difficult, but made a $3000 purchase from an accommodating manufacturer.
I need to feel good about my purchase, not feel like "begging"!!!
Fast forward to this year's Dallas show and I again responded to those who made it easy and inviting for me, Benoit and MSA.
None of this anecdotal evidence has any reflection on the quality or popularity of the products, but it does, simply, validate the importance of marketing.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Apr 2006 6:35 am

Nice post, Tony. I totally agree. I'm in the market for another steel right now, and would want a seller/company to treat me in a kindly fashion. There are definitely human emotions invloved when considering a product. The maker has to treat the potential buyer with respect.

I haven't been to the ISGC (I'm going this year), but I can't believe that some manfacturers would have their steels up on tables where no one can try them. That's ridiculous. I certainly won't be buying from a company that holds their product at arm's length.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 16 Apr 2006 8:15 am

Chris, builders put their guitars up on a table to avoid being knocked over, or plucked upon by children. My experience is such that if I want to try out a guitar, the builder is quick to take it off of the table.
I don't blame them. I would not leave my nice, wood grain finished guitar on the floor either. Too many folks milling about that may bump into it. If nothing else, it will stay in tune better.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 16 Apr 2006 9:07 am

Curt, with all due respect, when you get in an airplane and travel 1500 miles to attend a steel convention with manufacturers displaying their steels for sale, you shouldn't have to ask to take a steel down from a table to try it out!!
It's really contrary to the lifelong quest all us steelers have to find that perfect instrument....you never know which one will speak to you.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Apr 2006 9:08 am

Yes Curt, that does make sense.....I didn't picture kids running everywhere. I have a one year old myself, and he loves to mess with my steel, hence a good cover!

Are there a lot of kids at these conventions?

*(Posted the same time as Tony.....)[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 16 April 2006 at 10:11 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Apr 2006 9:33 am

Yes, a lot of kids at these conventions. Most are over 50.....

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Apr 2006 9:35 am

Ha-ha-ha!!!!

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 16 Apr 2006 2:18 pm

Tony Palmer:

I agree with your comments and it is what prompte this thread. When I was there, there was a steel I was interested in (and I know at least one other who was interested in the same steels). I asked to try them out and was told he had no amps to play through and if I could find one, I was welcome to try it out. I wasn't about to go ask competing steel manufactures to borrow one of their amps, so I passed. I don't think the guy cared since I never saw him get out of his chair to tell me anything about the steel or even say hello.

So I ended up ordering a third Superslide instead - a double 12.

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 16 Apr 2006 6:29 pm

Sorry to chime in so late. The current definition of marketing in modern business circles is...the creation of value for the entity's customers. The presentation of that value is thought of as sales. I think a manufacturer that has a large list of satisfied customers, a long history of recommendation, and high resale values, has done an admirable job of creating value for someone considering their product. I bought a brand new steel in 1980, I played it for 20+ years and it is still in mechanically superb condition. And...I can sell it for almost twice what I paid for it new. Now that's value and wonderful marketing.
TC

Mickey McGee · Post by **Mickey McGee** » 24 Apr 2006 12:13 am

A lot of kids w/blue hair-At the Mesa show this year I saw one real kid age wise and he played the heck out of his guitar, so....it would seem the marketing for PSG is for the old folks but we have a lot of blue hairs in the Phx area-whatever works.

Lynette Richards · Post by **Lynette Richards** » 25 Apr 2006 6:14 am

I would like to add a different perspective on this. What would you rather buy a marketing campaign, or one heck of a steel guitar? Many vendors have entertainment in their rooms and have the place packed, big flashy signs, and even free amps and stuff to buy a guitar. The way I see it is they are just trying to make there product more appealing to you that way. Now here is the other method that we use. Have a sign, have a few little things to sell, and some entertainment with some of our seasoned players. This may not be the way to pack a room, but the entertainment should be on the main stage. I would much rather someone walk around that show, and get sidetracked by all the lights and spinning guitars and hopefully try one of those guitars out, but since your at a steel guitar show, you have many options, so get around and try them all, before you go and buy the first one. Then you have the option of picking the one you liked best. It is not practical for us to travel with all the stuff to fill a room and extravagant displays. The only thing I recommend is trying all the guitars even if they do not have the huge marketing campaign, I am sure many people would be surprised to know that a guitar can sell itself, if you don't believe me, try a Mullen in the future. So bottom line, are you buying the marketing or a great guitar?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 25 Apr 2006 8:53 am

quote:"I am sure many people would be surprised to know that a guitar can sell itself, if you don't believe me, try a Mullen in the future." unquote!

......or more realistically, a CARTER!

www.genejones.com

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 25 Apr 2006 11:08 am

Don't forget the engineering masterpiece, Sierra! Just look under the hood.......

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 25 Apr 2006 11:36 am

The current definition of marketing in modern business circles is...the creation of value for the entity's customers.

Well, maybe that's what they say, but I view "creating value" more in the province of engineers and designers, not marketeers. I see the marketing function more related to guiding that creation to a commercial end:

1. Figuring out where markets are.
2. Figuring out what products/features would best satisfy those markets.
3. Figuring out how sales people should sell to those markets.

Doing this formally seems to imply a pretty high marketing effort overhead - great if you're fairly large or want to get larger, but sort of irrelevant if you're happy where you are, and "just know" the market and how to satisfy and sell to it.

I agree with Mike Mantey - when I buy a steel guitar, I care only about the guitar, not the marketing cachet. But not everyone is like this - many people expect a lot of sizzle with their steak.

Bill M - I emphatically do not mean that I think steel manufacturers should ignore potential customers or be rude to them. But realistically, I have seen that kind of behavior from guitar-amp builders who have more business than they can handle, don't want to grow, and truly don't care whether I'm interested or not. I suppose that's an enviable position in some ways - some people just set the parameters of their life, make people dance to their tune, and get away with it.

Lynette Richards · Post by **Lynette Richards** » 25 Apr 2006 12:05 pm

I guess I'll add my perspective on the rudeness or being ignored. From the distributor side, you have hundreds of people coming into your demo room, I want more than anything to greet and talk with each one. I try and greet as many as I can, but you must understand a big majority of the people at the show are just looking. Knowing the steel shows, you can get into a conversation with a steel player that could go on for days, therefore if you are going to the steel show to buy, or you want to try a guitar, you get someone's attention and they should be more than glad to help you, I know I would. As a manufacturer, I wouldn't want to lose a sale, so just get our attention and there ya go.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Apr 2006 1:22 pm

The hardest part is telling potential customers from the "looky-loos" (a trade term). I kinda sympathize with what Mike is saying...if I were selling "Glopnagle" steels, I wouldn't want a dyed-in-the-wool, die hard fanatic of some other brand tying up my time, and playing my guitar for a half-hour, while a real potential customer just looks on.

If you act interested, most vendors will be happy to help you. Not all display spaces come with an outlet, either, and that might help explain those "missing" amps!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 25 Apr 2006 1:36 pm

You really never know whats on anyones mind as they are touring trade show booths..or rooms..

especially the silent ones...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 April 2006 at 03:27 PM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 25 Apr 2006 6:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You really never know whats on anyones mind as they are touring trade show booths..or rooms..
especially the silent ones...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.

That is one reason that builders place their steels on a table.

So that they may be seen......