PBS Country Music Special

[Jerry Overstreet]

Ya'll have the lyrics wrong. "Before microwave ovens when a girl could still cook and steal wood"

Anyway, I find the series interesting. Actually, I don't care so much about the artists' views on various subjects as I do about the music they delivered. Some things are best left to the imagination.

BTW, why do we have 2 or 3 threads on the same subject here anyway?

[Fred Treece]

That's a solid piece of songwriting regardless of your political feelings. It captures a sentiment. It doesn't doesn't call for any change or to struggle against anything or anyone. Like, did anyone listen to that song and then write an angry letter to Ford and Chevy?

I agree it’s a great song and makes a strong statement without swinging right or left, but the closing verse is definitely a call to action. Writing like that was one of Merle’s many gifts. One of the others was, who cares what this song is about - listen to that voice!

LOL Jerry O.

[Scott Thomas]

Another thing I just noticed...

Kitty Wells of course copied the melody to "answer" Hank Thompson. "It wasn't God who made honky tonk angels". I don't know why it took this long to see that they both copied the melody to the Great Speckled Bird. One thing that came out in the first couple of episodes was how freely people borrowed the melodies of other popular songs and just changed the lyrics.

Also I like Jimmy Rodgers, and while I'm not real familiar with his whole catalog, he sure did milk that Blue Yodel formula!

[Curt Trisko]

I agree it’s a great song and makes a strong statement without swinging right or left, but the closing verse is definitely a call to action.

I can't say you're wrong, but I stand behind my statement. It feels like a songwriter weaving a mindspace and not like the songwriter is telling you how you're supposed to feel.

[Dennis Brion]

Curt, I think it was kitty wells in her interview that was talking about Hank's songs she said "it's like how can he even know what I am feeling but he is singing what's happening to me right now!"

[Don R Brown]

did anyone listen to that song and then write an angry letter to Ford and Chevy?

I think somebody must have. My 2005 F150 is at 194,000 and still going, so that's well beyond "..10 years like they should". Ford got the message somehow.

[Don R Brown]

I had Merle on shuffle the other day when my wife walked into the room when the "Snowball from Hell" song came on. "Before microwave ovens, when women still could.....and still would". She politely asked me to remove the song from rotation.

In your place, I would have just as politely explained that my wife's dislike of a song was entirely her right, but did not impose any obligation on me to accommodate her. If she is at home, she would be free to leave the room until it was over. If in the car, I probably would have hit "next" out of respect for her feelings. No way would I remove a song I liked just because someone else disliked it.

But that's just me.

[James Mayer]

I had Merle on shuffle the other day when my wife walked into the room when the "Snowball from Hell" song came on. "Before microwave ovens, when women still could.....and still would". She politely asked me to remove the song from rotation.

In your place, I would have just as politely explained that my wife's dislike of a song was entirely her right, but did not impose any obligation on me to accommodate her. If she is at home, she would be free to leave the room until it was over. If in the car, I probably would have hit "next" out of respect for her feelings. No way would I remove a song I liked just because someone else disliked it.

But that's just me.

The thing is, I agree with her. Nostalgia for a time when women were simply meant to cook and push out babies is as irritating to me as it is to her. She’s highly educated and knows exactly how much better she has it than previous generations. Yeah, it’s just a song, but it’s also easier to ignore if you aren’t the target.

[Curt Trisko]

The thing is, I agree with her. Nostalgia for a time when women were simply meant to cook and push out babies is as irritating to me as it is to her. She’s highly educated and knows exactly how much better she has it than previous generations. Yeah, it’s just a song, but it’s also easier to ignore if you aren’t the target.

Can artistic expression only be good if it captures a sentiment that you agree with? If people refuse to see value in things that don't align with their worldview, it's their loss. Whether you agree with the sentiment of the song doesn't change how good or bad it is. There's an art to songwriting - and capturing a sentiment is different than pandering to people.

[Barry Blackwood]

Guys, you are misquoting the line "Before Microwave ovens when a girl could still cook and still would."
Or are you leaving this out on purpose?

[Don R Brown]

Can artistic expression only be good if it captures a sentiment that you agree with? If people refuse to see value in things that don't align with their worldview, it's their loss. Whether you agree with the sentiment of the song doesn't change how good or bad it is. There's an art to songwriting - and capturing a sentiment is different than pandering to people.

I agree the song can be appreciated for what it is, without the musician having to subscribe to it. I enjoy playing songs about cheating on my wife, coming home drunk, punching my boss and quitting, and robbing trains - none of which I actually do nor endorse. And I think that's part of the appeal of our music - it may not reflect MY life, but most of those songs exist because for SOMEBODY, that's the way it was or still is.

If I were to be offended by every song which tells of things I don't agree with, there probably would not be too many left for me to listen to. Scratch "Whiskey Bent And Hell Bound". I don't rely on booze to cope so forget about "Tonight The Bottle Let Me Down" and "There Stands The Glass". "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die" - man, that's sure not anything I approve of, forget Folsom Prison Blues. I'm not a church-goer, so should I never listen to "Amazing Grace" or "Will The Circle Be Unbroken"?

So many more, but you get the idea. Again, what anybody likes or doesn't like is none of my concern. But I would have a difficult time if someone asked me not to listen to a given song because they didn't like the words.

[Fred Treece]

Don & Curt, those are two excellent posts. Burnsy shoulda interviewed you guys for the show.

[James Mayer]

Can artistic expression only be good if it captures a sentiment that you agree with? If people refuse to see value in things that don't align with their worldview, it's their loss. Whether you agree with the sentiment of the song doesn't change how good or bad it is. There's an art to songwriting - and capturing a sentiment is different than pandering to people.

I agree the song can be appreciated for what it is, without the musician having to subscribe to it. I enjoy playing songs about cheating on my wife, coming home drunk, punching my boss and quitting, and robbing trains - none of which I actually do nor endorse. And I think that's part of the appeal of our music - it may not reflect MY life, but most of those songs exist because for SOMEBODY, that's the way it was or still is.

If I were to be offended by every song which tells of things I don't agree with, there probably would not be too many left for me to listen to. Scratch "Whiskey Bent And Hell Bound". I don't rely on booze to cope so forget about "Tonight The Bottle Let Me Down" and "There Stands The Glass". "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die" - man, that's sure not anything I approve of, forget Folsom Prison Blues. I'm not a church-goer, so should I never listen to "Amazing Grace" or "Will The Circle Be Unbroken"?

So many more, but you get the idea. Again, what anybody likes or doesn't like is none of my concern. But I would have a difficult time if someone asked me not to listen to a given song because they didn't like the words.

Guys, I like Merle and appreciate good songwriting. Don, most of the references above express regret for poor decision making. They aren’t glorifying adultery, alcoholism or violence. I can’t think of one country song that touts that “tonight, I’m planning to get drunk, kill someone and cheat on my wife, it’s gonna be awesome bro”. I bet you wouldn’t like that song.

The one lyric we are disagreeing about seems to be written to resonate with an audience that agrees that we need to get back to a time when women had less options (read, less distractions). Unfortunately, both my wife and I come from places where “traditional” expectations of women are still alive and well. I think it’s a good song, but the lyric is disappointing.

Toby Keith, however, was a bit more than disappointing. Nationalism and glorification of a war that claimed a couple of million lives would be interesting to visit in retrospect now that every politician that voted “Yes” openly regrets it and it’s widely considered to be one of the great disasters in US history.

[Mitch Drumm]

I can’t think of one country song that touts that “tonight, I’m planning to get drunk, kill someone and cheat on my wife, it’s gonna be awesome bro”. I bet you wouldn’t like that song.

That's a quintet:

tonight
get drunk
kill
cheat
awesome bro

I agree, I can't think of a single one. But I'd probably like it if I could.

I guess "Pardon Me, I've Got Someone To Kill" doesn't hit all 5......fortunately, it was written in an era when the phrase "awesome bro" would get you escorted to the county line.

I'd imagine Harlan Howard or Leon Payne coulda met the requirements in short order. Apparently, they were never asked or forgot.

[Curt Trisko]

most of the references above express regret for poor decision making. They aren’t glorifying adultery, alcoholism or violence. I can’t think of one country song that touts that “tonight, I’m planning to get drunk, kill someone and cheat on my wife, it’s gonna be awesome bro”. I bet you wouldn’t like that song.

One of my favorite country songs is about a guy who ditched his wife and kids for another, more exciting woman, got shamed by his friends into coming back home to her, and then is all torn up inside because he regrets listening to them, lol. It's "I Did The Right Thing" by Johnny Paycheck.

[Jerry Overstreet]

partial quote.
.......Guys, I like Merle and appreciate good songwriting. Don, most of the references above express regret for poor decision making. They aren’t glorifying adultery, alcoholism or violence. I can’t think of one country song that touts that “tonight, I’m planning to get drunk, kill someone and cheat on my wife, it’s gonna be awesome bro”. I bet you wouldn’t like that song.

Yeah, well there are a bunch of country songs about premeditated debauchery, sinnin' and murder. Here's just one of them. Remember this Wynn Stewart song: https://youtu.be/kyNcmWe2qhs
...or maybe this one from Paycheck: https://youtu.be/iNfnL39Fc5s

It's just music guys...entertainment. I think a lot of songs are just like a lot of movies. Someone has an idea that people will want to see or hear about and will make money. I don't think every country song was about somebody's personal experience...some probably were sure, but not all.

[Don R Brown]

James, I hear what you are saying and certainly can't say I object. You speak of "expectations of women" and that is another example of some people trying to tell other people how to live their lives. Which IMHO is not a good thing. We should live our lives for our own sake, not because "they" (whoever "THEY" are) think we should think, dress, act, sing or whatever in a certain way.

Which is another theme SO well known in country music. "THEY" didn't want electric guitar at the Opry. THEY didn't like rebels and outlaws. Yet so much of the music we love does have that "I did it MY way" theme.

We're good, and I will also grant you that I would go farther to make my wife happy than I would for someone else. If y'all want to pull that Merle song from the rotation that's fine with me.

PS - you have a valid point about SOME songs expressing regret for what some consider debauchery but not all. I'd offer Cal Smith's "The Lord Knows I'm Drinking", Johnny Cash's "Oney", "Six Pack To Go" and lots more, as songs showing little or no regret for the protagonist's actions. (and don't forget "...guitars that tune good and firm feelin' women" )

[Don R Brown]

Toby Keith, however, was a bit more than disappointing. Nationalism and glorification of a war that claimed a couple of million lives would be interesting to visit in retrospect now that every politician that voted “Yes” openly regrets it and it’s widely considered to be one of the great disasters in US history.

James, you were doing fine until you started editing. Should'a left it as it was.

[Charlie McDonald]

Gee, I didn't know this stuff had been covered in the first few segments.

[Bill McCloskey]

“ both copied the melody to the Great Speckled Bird. ‘

You mean the carter family, I am dreaming tonight of my blue eyes, which is where the melody for the great speckled bird came from

[Charlie McDonald]

(Every night the Opry would start, Mother had to walk around the block. Great Speckled Bird, she mentioned in particular. I wasn't born.)

[Doug Beaumier]

It looks like they had some fun along the way.

[Scott Thomas]

“ both copied the melody to the Great Speckled Bird. ‘

You mean the carter family, I am dreaming tonight of my blue eyes, which is where the melody for the great speckled bird came from

I no sooner posted that than I watched the next episode where that very thing was pointed out. Ha. I KNEW that probably wasn't the end of it and I was missing something.

Also that line "the Blues had a baby and they called it Rock & Roll" to which the man replied...yeah but the daddy was a hillbilly strikes me as truer than ever.

[Erv Niehaus]

The perfect County and Western song is the one recorded by David Allen Cole, he covers all the bases.
Erv

[b0b]

“ both copied the melody to the Great Speckled Bird. ‘

You mean the carter family, I am dreaming tonight of my blue eyes, which is where the melody for the great speckled bird came from

And actually, that fact was called out by the narrator in the series.

What I don't understand is why A. P. Carter's "collecting" of songs wasn't considered theft. The Carters made a lot of money off of songs that he had essentially stolen from poor people. So did Jimmy Rodgers. Was folk music so common and banal that it wasn't considered to have real value in those days? Until the record industry proved different, of course.