Advice on Volume Pedal Practice

[Jamie Kitlarchuk]

Hey all, I've been playing for just over a year and have started to work a little more on my volume pedal technique. I spent most of the first year playing without one so could focus on everything else without adding the volume to the mix.

I'm looking for some advice or tips on how to best utilize the volume pedal. I hear lots of folks pumping it, which I dont really care for. Right now I use it sparingly and mostly on slower stuff where im typically filling in space. When playing melody I dont really use it at all.

Any advice or practice tips would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
J

[Gene Tani]

James Shelton's videos have good info, starting with understanding how your pot (or electronic equivalent) tapers up and down, and the chain of picking softly or hard, how your pickup reacts, then how your amp reacts to that, which is a lot of variables WITHOUT considering volume pedal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-0Js18fKms

And then record yourself against a backing track to learn the most basic usages, giving yourself a *small* boost on playing harmonics and lead lines and sustaining a note/chord and then returning to baseline volume.

One thing i tried to train myself to use the VP in a controlled range is tape a block of wood on the front to blcok it from going to over 3/4 of max. not sure if successful, but sort of worth a try

[Jon Voth]

My "Achilles heel" if you will.

Been playing two years, and always had my foot on it to get used to it. Lately trying to turn up amp and dial pedal back to be able to get more 'longevity'. But it becomes dangerous.

My question to seasoned players is, do most of you keep a huge reserve, and/or is there most of you who go WOT for solos or features, etc. I'm sure answers vary but feedback is great.


Jon

[Jim Palenscar]

One thing to keep in mind- the higher you have the amp set, the narrower effective range you have with the volume pedal.

[Tony Prior]

The most difficult thing to do with a V Pedal is to keep it in ONE position which is about 50 %, somewhere in that range. +/-. 50 or 60 % , allows for the extended sustain to be added . Some players allow for more, it's just what works for you.

A good way to start to train to keep a steady position , early on, is to remove the V Pedal and replace it with an 8 or 9 inch length of 2x4. Place your foot on it, it will NOT MOVE. Practice like this for a while, your right foot gets acclimated. This will help with eliminating "pumping"

Once you go to the V Pedal it should be in the same place ALL THE TIME. Your foot should already be trained on the STOCK / steady position . It just takes time.

[Donny Hinson]

One thing to keep in mind- the higher you have the amp set, the narrower effective range you have with the volume pedal.

And conversely, the higher you have the amp volume set, the more sustain and power you have available! Easily half the "sustain" problems players seem to have can be blamed on not setting the amp volume high enough.

[Jamie Kitlarchuk]

Thanks everyone, keep 'em coming. I have watched the James Shelton videos, and to me his approach seems well thought out. He suggests having the volume pedal at about 90%.

I've also seen suggestions to keep it as low as 40%, allowing much more headroom when it's opened up.

The biggest challenge I'm having is finding the right spot again when backing off, and keeping it there consistently. The other is having a slow, steady increase, so it doesn't really sound like an increase at all... more for the longer sustain on runs.

How do you guys use it on up-tempo songs?

[Jacek Jakubek]

Excellent topic!

I read on here that Ralph Mooney always set his amp to FULL volume and had to make sure to use the VP "very carefully." Interesting...maybe that was another reason why he was so good.

Tony Prior, I agree that the hardest part of VP technique is learning to keep it still! One time, I thought I was doing pretty good practicing with my volume pedal. Then, when I recorded myself, I literally felt SEA SICK listening to all the volume pedal pumping. That day, I decided that I will NEVER be able to keep my foot totally still like that and decided to quit the volume pedal entirely. Eventually, I really missed the extra sustain so I decided to COMPROMISE.

The COMPROMISE: I adjust my VP setting to be at about 50% volume when the pedal is in heel-down (normally OFF) position. I play it in this heel-down position all the time and this is my regular playing volume. When I increase volume for sustain or do a volume swell, afterward I can slam my heel down all the way to go back to regular volume...This ensures my playing volume is always the same (exept when swelling on purpose.)Since you can't totally kill the volume using the VP, you have to have very good right-hand blocking. Also, I installed a volume knob on the guitar's end-plate for when I need to roll the volume off completely. Because you can't go quieter than your regular playing volume, you can't play the more "Ethereal" sounding stuff where you hide the pick attack completely and really swell into the notes. But, that's why it's a COMPROMISE. It's worth it TO ME to avoid that volume pedal pumping sound, which sounds TERRIBLE.

I have HUGE respect for players with good, effective VP technique and feel a bit inadequate for having to compromise. I don't recommend my compromise, but it's an option to consider. Trying to keep my foot completely still was NOT FUN, especially when you're playing faster up-tempo stuff and all your limbs and body parts are moving in SOME direction, EXCEPT your VP foot: Must be ROCK still. Not fun. The compromise was necessary for my playing enjoyment and out of respect for any listeners, who may be feeling sea-sick because of my bad volume pedal technique.

[Larry Ball]

I found the volume pedal came naturally to me when I started playing steel. I have a long history of playing 6 string lead guitar using effects etc. So I found my ears just tuned in and the volume pedal was an expression of the desired swell etc. in the solo or back up fill etc. Constant position was just whatever volume was required for the song.

I agree that it is important to know what your amp setting are.

[Ian Rae]

I think it's misleading to call it a volume pedal. It's a sustain pedal, to counteract the decay of the strings. Volume is set on the amp.
I know that when you take a solo you'll push the pedal a little harder, but that's still part of the expression of the instrument.
The pedal is such an intrinsic part of of the steel guitar that I'm sure it should be used right from the start, not bolted on afterwards.

[Per Berner]

I felt fully comfortable with the VP with pedal steel from day one, no pumping tendencies etc. But whenever I try to use one with a regular electric guitar, it feels totally awkward and just so wrong. Go figure!

[Ian Rae]

I figure that we don't expect huge sustain* from a regular guitar, whereas on a steel it's a vital characteristic of the sound and with the pedal we can make it seem almost endless.

[*unless it's heavily overdriven]

[Jonathan Shacklock]

I’d be interested to know if anyone uses James Shelton’s (and I assume from his comments, Doug Stock’s) VP at 90% and soft picking approach. It seems the opposite technique to assertive picking and plenty of well controlled headroom. I can see the thought behind it although I’m sceptical about gentle picking giving more sustain. Setting the amp with volume pedal wide open is very similar to what Jeff Newman advocated in, I think, his “Techniques” video. I don’t think this is what most of us do... is it...?

[Tucker Jackson]

I had the same reaction as you, Jonathan. Running the VP at 90%? That doesn't leave much travel to get any long-lasting sustain.

It seems that most Forumites have reported running anywhere from 40 to 80%. The only benefit I can see to running 90% is that it might forceably prevent newbies from over-pumping or accidentally spiking (and maybe that's the instructor's thinking... simplify it to get them instant results, rather than leading them down the traditional path that takes a bit more to master).

And the 'picking softer for more sustain' idea can be disputed by anyone: leave the VP out of the equation and pick softly -- then pick again with authority. One of those will sustain longer.

Of course, this assumes your picking stroke is fairly close to being parallel to the bar. Sustain (and a pleasing tone) is decreased if your stroke is for more upward rather than parallel. Ricky Davis has talked about this. I haven't tested it, but on an extreme upward type of stroke where the strings's excitement-motion is up and down against the bottom of the bar, maybe sustain would be enhanced by picking softer since that's 'less of a bad thing.'

[Chris Sattler]

I hear a lot of players using the pedal too much. There was one web site {gone now} where the tabs were great but the audio was just unable to be listened to due to the horrid approach of the VP.

Here's how it's done. See just how little JC uses it and I think he is one of the most 'even' players around. But there is clearly a lot more to even playing than using the pedal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9L4xYQhEmw

I hope you don't mind this Johnny.

[Ian Rae]

I'm as guilty as anyone of overdoing the pedal, but it's clearly not cured by removing it. Young brass players also have a tendency to swell on notes once they've found them, and the only remedy is discipline.

[Georg Sørtun]

I’d be interested to know if anyone uses James Shelton’s (and I assume from his comments, Doug Stock’s) VP at 90% and soft picking approach. It seems the opposite technique to assertive picking and plenty of well controlled headroom. I can see the thought behind it although I’m sceptical about gentle picking giving more sustain.

Not more sustain as such, but less of a drop in sound-level after the attack means it takes much less VP movement to maintain a constant level through the sound-chain. Also easier to let the steel-strings ride on feedback from the speaker when the VP and amp-volume are kept high while picking lightly, as long as one doesn't add bar-vibrato too early (and thereby break the feedback-frequencies).

[Jamie Kitlarchuk]

Alright guys, lots of good conversation here, but I'm still looking for practice tips or advice on techniques. I'm trying to avoid going too far in the wrong direction and being stuck trying to fix bad habits.

I've seen the Jeff Newman video where he suggests that it isn't used as a way to 'sustain' your notes, but more for expression and to keep a consistent volume on longer runs. But here the general consensus seems to be that it's main purpose is for sustain. I can see it being used to extend (or sustain) the note at a consistent volume on slower songs, but when playing fills and melody it seems that a lot of guys pump it for every picked note (which sometimes seems like it's being used to cover up poor technique).

I guess when i hear suggestions to turn the amp all the way up so that i can pick a note with my volume pedal almost off, just so i can have almost unlimited 'sustain' doesn't seem that practical or desirable.

The thing I'm having the most difficulty with is pulling it back to that starting / consistent volume after it has been opened right up to 90-100%. I always overshoot and go back to almost no volume (leading to the pumping sound).

[Jonathan Shacklock]

Jamie, I think you will go in the right direction with that Jeff Newman video, despite the "cannot possibly create sustain" comments he makes, which I take as just his way of making a point. Keep listening, record yourself, film your right foot. It can take years to perfect as Jeff remarks but it's a matter of constant monitoring and fine tuning. Experiment with your foot position, a little further back than centred on the pedal can give you more control and reduce the overshooting.

Here's how it's done. See just how little JC uses it and I think he is one of the most 'even' players around. But there is clearly a lot more to even playing than using the pedal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9L4xYQhEmw

I hope you don't mind this Johnny.

Great example Chris. The amount of travel is directly related to what Johnny's playing: virtually static on single notes and fast chord changes. Contrast that with Johnny playing gorgeous slow, weepy country style – there's obviously a lot more VP movement going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nawua302gD4

In both examples Johnny appears to be picking with "authority" (that's the exact word I was searching for Tucker!).

I don't mean to imply that there's only one way to do things, I'm just not sure about this 90%/soft picking advice, much as I respect James' teaching videos and Georg's comment above. Lloyd's fingers are like a viper striking the strings at times, Emmons, Brumley, Moon, all notable for confidently energizing the strings with their picking styles and yet maintaining an even output.

Since I mentioned Jeff Newman I thought I'd review his comments in his Techniques video (after quite a few years) and although he does say:

"Most people play with their amplifier set too high with way too much volume on it. What this creates is a tremendous change in volume with a very little bit of movement on the volume pedal. What you should do is turn your amplifier down to a reasonable, acceptable listening volume with your volume pedal wide open..."

...He goes on to recommend coming back a "third to half way" as your base level (ie 50-66%, to get overly specific). As far as picking goes he makes a "pick hard" comment in reference to one beginners exercise. Not that Jeff's advice is the final word in all matters.

Other than adjusting your technique to what you're playing at any given moment, all the variables such as pot taper, foot position on the pedal, shoes, room acoustics, band volume creep, song dynamics, amp response, string age, guitar sustain play into this and it's a matter of constantly feeling, listening and adjusting.

At times I've really messed the balance up, other times I've played whole gigs with no idea what my right foot was doing. On a good night it feels exactly right and really under control. I could probably use a more methodical approach to setting amp volume at the soundcheck, that's a takeaway for me.

[John Spaulding]

Excerpts from The Paul Franklin Method about the Volume Pedal:

Connecting With The Instrument

Using the Volume Pedal For Expression

The Emotional Pedals

Link to all of Paul's Courses