1966 Pro Reverb questions

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 26 Jun 2019 8:11 am

I answered an ad in Kansas for a '66 Pro Reverb. The 90 year old gentleman said he bought it and a fender Telecaster at Phil Uhlick music store in Wichita in 1970. He played rhythm guitar with some friends till 1980 something and it hasn't been played since. It sounds great and seems to work good and quiet except that the vibrato/reverb pedal doesn't work. The reverb works on the face controls just not the pedal. The far right volume nob is scratchy too.

He said he had the grill cloth changed to the lighter color which he liked better but kept the original(see pics). It looks a little dark to me to be original but what do you guys think?

The chassis has a white chalky appearance and is covered with a chalky like substance (see pics) that can be wiped off with your finger. Is this oxidation? Does it present a problem?

Thanks, Pat

Brian Hollands · Post by **Brian Hollands** » 26 Jun 2019 8:55 am

That's a valuable amp. You need to have it serviced.
As a normal part of maintenance the filter capacitors at a minimum need to be changed. It looks to have had a 3-prong chord installed so it's had word done but if not since the 80's it's due again. A tech can check the pots and get the reverb pedal working again.

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 26 Jun 2019 9:08 am

Thanks. I agree I should get a good amp guy to look it over. The cord is original and like new, no cracks or stiff. I was not expecting the amp to be this nice. If it works good do all the things you mentioned need replaced for function or is it to keep them from damaging other components? Thanks

Brian Hollands · Post by **Brian Hollands** » 26 Jun 2019 9:18 am

If you're playing it, yes, replace the filter caps - they're the ones under the doghouse on the bottom of the chassis back behind the pre-amp tubes and choke.
Electrolytic capacitors will dry up over time and when they fail it's possible that they could take a transformer with them. If still original, the ones under that doghouse will be brown cardboard and likely display leakage on an end. If you take the cover off, be aware that they store current and can shock you even with the amp unplugged.

There are also electrolytic caps inside the chassis. A number of these will be blue cylindrical caps with white labels. These are in the signal path and should NOT be replaced unless they are leaking DC. From your description, doesn't sound like any are. Keep those. The unscrupulous will remove them (usually replacing them with Orange Drops) and sell them to someone seeking "Blackface Mojo". Those caps rarely need replacing.

The other cap that should be replaced is the one on the bias board.

If the amp sounds good otherwise, just standard clean, fix the footswitch and 3-prong/remove death cap (standard stuff any tech worth his salt can do) and it'll be good to go for another 30 years.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 26 Jun 2019 10:37 am

so why exactly have you not bought this amp yet ? everything you are describing is considered general maintenance.

The Pro Reverbs are many times referred to as "Half a Twin". Somewhere in the 45/50 watts ratting , less headroom than a Twin.

great amps. Go buy it, like right now.

Most amp buyers would not have left without it.

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 26 Jun 2019 11:17 am

Thanks for the info guys.

I bought this amp yesterday. Sorry for any

The previous owner said the dark colored grill cloth draped over the amp in the one pic is the original. Does it look OEM original to you. Seems too dark to me, but I'm no fender guru.

Pat

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 Jun 2019 11:40 am

The extra grill cloth looks like oxblood, which would not be original. It would be very unusual for regular blackface grill cloth to have darkened to that maroon a color. But I suppose the photo may be picking up some red from something else. Put it up against a white background. But the grill cloth on there looks fine. OK, it's not original. It will never be perfectly original again, that's the way it is.

The stuff on your finger does look like normal oxidation of the chassis. I've seen many, many old Fenders from the blackface/silverface era with this type of oxidation.

The speakers look original - 1966 Oxfords (465 speaker code, 636 = 36th week of 1966).

Serial # looks right for 66 via Greg Gagliano's serial number dating page - http://www.ggjaguar.com/fendamp5.htm

I suggest you look at the transformer codes - typical Schumacher transformer codes will look like 606-YWW, where Y will be the last digit of the year of production, WW will be the 2-digit week of production.

Definitely get it to a good tech who is very experienced with old Fenders. Avoid general electronics guys with a soldering iron but little to no experience with old tube amps. Better to wait for the right tech than let a hack screw it up. Let them evaluate things, including the electrolytic filter caps. Originals generally need to be changed, but if they were replaced with good ones at some point, they may be OK. This stuff can be tested, a good tech will know how to do that.

I strongly recommend that you do NOT let them change all the signal-path caps/resistors/etc., just for the sake of replacing them. If the electrolytics are good, I would evaluate the other components by how they sound, and replace only the ones that are needed due to leakage, out-of-spec, etc. And if replacing, I suggest replacing with caps/resistors as close to the originals as possible. For my money, putting modern-design caps to try to cut the noise floor down affects the sound in an adverse way. Just my opinion, but I've seen too many people do this and be unhappy with the result. I like these amps to be as close to the sound of when they were new as possible.

These are great amps, IMO.

Barry Coker · Post by **Barry Coker** » 26 Jun 2019 12:41 pm

Hi Patrick I have a 65 Pro reverb and have seen a couple of 66 and 67 Twins the dark grill cloth isn't original may have been added before the last owner bought it. Back then they were just Amps now there very valuable and as advised by everyone needs to be looked after by a Good Tech.

Great find Barry

Dana Blodgett · Post by **Dana Blodgett** » 26 Jun 2019 12:44 pm

A GREAT find, if you paid less than 2K$. I had a ‘66 pro reverb, I thought it was the best amp ever made, especially for a 6 string.
I agree with Dave that the oxblood grill cloth is NOT original! 40 watts of pure bliss!

Michael Butler · Post by **Michael Butler** » 26 Jun 2019 1:42 pm

congrats! great find! have it checked out and play it!

i have a 67 that has similar grill cloth. the oxblood wasn't used on black panel pro reverbs as far as i've been able to see. save it and use it elsewhere.

p.s. and to have the cover!!

play music!

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 26 Jun 2019 2:04 pm

And have the bias supply filter cap checked. I have a '67 Pro Reverb.

Heavy, but a wonderful amp - enjoy it!

Chris Boyd · Post by **Chris Boyd** » 26 Jun 2019 2:10 pm

Gorgeous amp..Did you buy the Telecaster too?

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 26 Jun 2019 2:27 pm

Thanks! you have all been a lot of help.

On the side, it came with an old suitcase full of cords, connectors etc and a couple old Dukane 7A65 mics that have some serious cool factor going on.

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 26 Jun 2019 2:31 pm

To Chris, I called his son back today to ask about the guitar and he corrected the story. It was an old Gibson J45 not a tele.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Jun 2019 3:11 am

great !

Don't use it until you have the necessary maintenance performed. Lots can go wrong in a hurry.

A REAL tech will change all E Caps, check and/or replace screen and grid resistors, tube sockets etc. Something very simple to correct can cause something very severe to occur.

Wonderful amp!

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 27 Jun 2019 4:05 am

I work on amps. Must have 15 waiting in my shop to be serviced. Maybe 10 are older Fenders.

I agree, generally, with what others have posted. One thing I’d add is to be aware of what brand of caps a tech uses for replacement. Unfortunately, it’s a subject of an endless, mind-numbing debate but it is certainly true some techs will use the cheapest they can obtain. I don’t think think there’s any debate on what a mistake that is.

For what it’s worth, I use F&T caps in the power section. Many swear by blue Sprague Atom caps for the same application.

I do not agree that the wholesale replacement of all screen and grid resistors and sockets is smart. Sorry, to me that’s overboard.

Some automatically upgrade to the safer 3-prong power cord. I get that and do it on maybe 95% of the amps that come into my shop without it. The few rare ones I don’t are just that, very rare and pristine. Even so, it has been my experience that upgrade does not diminish an amp’s value.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 27 Jun 2019 4:08 am

Dave Mudgett wrote:
......I strongly recommend that you do NOT let them change all the signal-path caps/resistors/etc., just for the sake of replacing them........
.

In fact it is a known scam to pull certain desirable vintage components and replace them with modern ones in the name of 'maintenance' when it's really a guy just stealing your good parts because he can. There's someone here on the forum who once bragged that he did it because his clients weren't smart enough to know the difference. Amazed me how proud he was.

It would be a good idea to specifically tell your tech that you do NOT want any changes in the signal path and that they should contact you first if they feel that they need to replace drifting components. This will make anyone think twice before trying to scam you. Getting a photo of the inside of the chassis would be ideal if you have the chance. Something like this:

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 27 Jun 2019 5:48 am

Thanks guys for the advice. I really appreciate it!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Jun 2019 6:04 am

Eric Philippsen wrote: I do not agree that the wholesale replacement of all screen and grid resistors and sockets is smart. Sorry, to me that’s overboard.

"CHECKING" to be sure they are not HEAT DAMAGED is not the same as wholesale replacement. Those 6L6's create a massive amount of socket heat above and below.

Lots of folks never think to check them.

this is a 53 year old amp. Leave nothing to chance.

thats all

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 27 Jun 2019 6:22 am

And microphone in the picture is not a Dukane, it is a Shure Super 55.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Jun 2019 7:43 am

Jon's post deserves special mention

tell the tech NOT to replace anything that isn't electrically failing (except for the electrolytics). Also tell him you want ALL the removed components back

Do yourself a favor and mark the tubes on the bottom with a tiny dab of odd color fingernail polish. Techs have been known to remove and replace great (and valuable) vintage tubes, and then give you back failing vintage tubes. Old tubes are big money, so don't let them pull scam this on you.[/u]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 27 Jun 2019 7:44 am

I agree that everything should be checked, electronically, visually, and generally by probing with something like a chopstick to test its physical integrity, microphonics, etc. My point was that only components testing bad should be replaced. I believe that Jon's point about some techs harvesting good parts is unforunately true in some cases. I don't think it's that common, but it's probably a good idea to take some snapshots of every aspect of your amp before bringing it to a tech that you don't know pretty well. Tubes too. All the serious techs I know return all replaced parts in a plastic bag to avoid any possible appearance of conflict of interest. I think it's reasonable to ask for all replaced parts to be returned to you. If someone objects to that, I'd take it somewhere else. I also reiterate my point that if signal path components need to be replaced, IMO it is best to use the same type and rating if you want the classic sound - e.g., carbon-comp resistors for carbon-comp resistors of the same type/wattage, and so on with caps.

I also agree with Eric that it's essential to use good quality electrolytics, rated for the proper DC voltage. Good caps cost more, but you will be penny-wise and pound-foolish to use anything else. What is "best" is open to discussion, but I don't think it matters that much for non-signal-path caps provided they are good quality and rated properly.

Just saw Donny's post as I was proofing. Yes, mark your tubes. An old jeweler's trick is to scribe a tiny identifying mark somewhere not obviously visible. I'll say that no techs I deal with are pulling scams like that, but if I was away from home-base dealing with someone I didn't know, I'd take these precautions.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 27 Jun 2019 3:29 pm

Congrats. You've taken custodianship from a veteran and he's bequeathed his earthly manna to you.

Lucky you!

The Pro is one of the better amps.

Although I realize updating parts is a good thing, I would play the amp the way it is unless you plan on doing some heavy gigging and touring with it.

Some of the cap drifting can become part of the charm of the sound.

If your trans ever blows, have it rewound. The iron in them is part of the tone.

I've always wanted a Pro, but I got a Vibroverb as that was what was available that day. Not that I'm complaining.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Jun 2019 3:38 am

Dave Mudgett wrote:I agree that everything should be checked, electronically, visually, and generally by probing with something like a chopstick to test its physical integrity, microphonics, etc.

Probing HEAT effected components , like resistors, with a wooden stick ( common ) may just reveal a crack which cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Where I come from, servicing and repairing all sorts of TUBE and Solid State gear , including amplifier repair, probing gently in specific areas is a typical routine. It doesn't mean change them , it means check them to be sure they are not cracked or damaged. Hi heat has an incredible effect on carbon resistors !

Not an argument, a suggestion.

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 4 Jul 2019 5:19 pm

Thanks for all the info/advice guys, I really appreciate it!

Pat