2nd string and 9th string lower

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 18 Jan 2006 6:11 pm

Kevin- earlier in this thread I mentioned "Trappin' Squirrels" Catfish John tape that is all about the 2nd string 1/2 and whole step lowers. Lots of cool ideas.

About $10. Got mine from Frenchy in New Mexico.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 18 January 2006 at 06:12 PM.]

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 18 Jan 2006 7:03 pm

Thanks John.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 19 Jan 2006 2:57 am

(Craig, that's why your not in an award winning band booked a year in advance. Its called attention to detail)

I call it something else and it starts with the letter "A". If you half to play that close it takes all the feel out of everything and makes it to mechanical. I guess I don't remember seeing you guys on any music award shows, though I might have missed it. Or seen you in any music publications either. I still wouldn't let some schmo dictate how or what I should play. If you are that good I hope you got people to carry your gear for you. If you don't use that change unhook the darn thing and go on with life. Fretting over some little thing like that will make you old in a hurry.[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 19 January 2006 at 02:59 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 Jan 2006 4:47 am

regarding that little clip...early in the phrasing uses the 2nd string Raise, natural and 1/2 step lower..

then in the ending phrase, is the full tone lower...

I don't think this stuff is magic or anything that requires intense study. It comes from seat time.

I think it's more of an undestanding of the scale phrasing and what they offer .The more we sit and poke around with these options and work them into our comfort zone the more they will become part of the AUTO PILOT mode.

Although I am probably the last in line to proclaim any proficiency with these OPTIONS, I do have several that I use which just show up..no thought...

I have always been one to side with the camp thats says..Don't learn licks...learn where they come from...understand what these little ditty's do...and I am not talking about the music theory note for note..I have no clue what the actual notes are, I don't even care...just the understanding of the tonal applications..if that makes any sense..

I recall taking some very advanced Guitar lessons from NE Guitar Guru, Link Chamberlain, now deceased, he told me once..

All of the notes in the scale..theres probably only 1 or 2 that are really offensive,the rest you can probably use all the time..the trick is to know which ones !

If we think of Knee Levers and Pedals as doing what our fingers do on the guitar fretbard it may change the way we approaach things. raise a note, move a finger, lower a note, move a finger..

keyboard..raise a note..play a black key ..

the 2nd string brings home some very powerful stuff..but we may just have to sit and "work thru it"...I don't see this stuff as licks..I see them as optional ways of redundency but with a different feel...and from a different position...

seat time..not tab...

The 9th string..

Everyone here , me too..one of the first things we learn is to mash pedal A and raise the bottom string along with the B pedal to get that chord..strings 10,8 and 6...the B string gets an UP pull to get to the resolution note.

the 9th lower, basically does the exact same thing, it is a Lower to the same note as on the 10th sting with Pedal A.. Lower to the note on the 9th instead of raising to the note on the 10th...

exactly the same, just different !

obviously there are numerous other applications but this is the most basic..

It's an optional way to get to the same note in the scale..

t

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 19 Jan 2006 6:26 am

Kevin,

As I said earlier, I use and have used this lever in the studio whether your ears can hear it or not.

No offense, I am surprised and puzzled. You said you can play exactly like the record and can copy Buddy note for note. Why do you need a lesson to teach the function of a lever that changes the notes to a pentatonic scale?

Here's a defintion to clarify the importance of this change in Todays Country which is more rock and 80's pop than anything else. Every rock, blues, and pop guitarist will confirm that the solo sound for this type of music requires using the pentatonic and blues scales.

I have always thought of this lever as the pentaonic scale lever and it is as important to me in that scale as the A and B pedals are to finding the proper positions for the major scale, which is why I use it when I play solos that rock. Without this change finding easy positions across the fretboard becomes much more difficult.

In the key of C, at the 8th fret, activate the lever lowering the 2nd string a whole tone and the 9th string a 1/2 tone (the pentatonic lever) and pick the strings in this order to hear the sound of a descending scale, 3-1-4-2-5-6-7-8-9-10.

Now leave the lever activated and also activate the "B" pedal with it and pick the same pattern for the F chord scale.

Now repeat the same picking sequence while activating the lever that lowers the E's to Eb along with the "pentatonic" lever and the "B" pedal for the G chord scale. Those pedal combinations work all the way up the neck connecting scale positions.

Without moving the bar you get the 1, 4, and 5 chord scales utilizing every string on the instrument. The simplicity and easy access to these popular notes should be clear to everyone who understands rock and blues why this lever is very important in todays musical world.

To sum this thing up......Pedals change open tuned notes by intervals into another tuning or scale depending on how the instrument is viewed. In musical terms stating that a pedal changing all the strings into a pentatonic scale is useless is a misguided concept.

Paul

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 19 Jan 2006 6:48 am

Kevin -- I like your attitude. I've watched your opinion change slightly if not moderately on this subject, and I must say I respect you for that, brother. I've had my opinions swayed and changed a number of times from keeping an open mind.

Al

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 19 Jan 2006 7:33 am

If I may be so bold....

Paul Franklin's intro and turnarounds on "Designated Drinker" use the 2nd string whole tone lower.

-John

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 19 Jan 2006 7:37 am

Both 2nd and 9th strings render attainable 7th triad chords. The potentialities of chord melodies combined with the finesses required to maintain exactable and desirous musical renditions, imparts supporting roles in the necessary usages of both 2nd and 9th changes. Glissando and vibrato most
assuredly will add the "turn heads"
potential to the changes in this discussion.

Bill

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Jan 2006 8:51 am

I play a lot of rock and blues. I use the lever a lot for pentatonic scales in those kinds of music, as Paul described. The use of the lever is not obvious to the ear, but it is necessary for most of my fast pentatonic run patterns.

Where is it used in "today's country"? I think that much of what people hear as lead/slide guitar on the radio is probably Paul Franklin or Sonny Garrish using some good distortion and this lever. That's how I hear it, anyway.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 19 Jan 2006 9:08 am

I tune my 9th to a C# and raise it to D with the 2nd string lower to to D. I like to lower the 2nd to a C# when lowering the E's to Eb. It's like the C6 with a D on top. Tons of cool licks, but I don't play current Top 40 hits.

DZ

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 19 Jan 2006 9:38 am

Paul, that was one of the most valuable posts
I've seen on this forum. Thanks. I'll bet it helped more people than just me here. I'm printing that post out as I type this and I'm going to be looking at these changes for the next couple of weeks and seeing if I could fit them in somewhere in our material. This is interesting and very valuable info. Thinking of that lever as a pentatonic lever changes things in my mind. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 January 2006 at 09:41 AM.]

Steve Zinno · Post by **Steve Zinno** » 19 Jan 2006 10:07 am

Paul, great post, very illustrative (to me). If your instructional materials are as good as this post, it appears I should buy all of it. Many thanks.

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steve z.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 19 Jan 2006 11:13 am

Thank you for that post Paul. A great explination of those combinations and their use. A very "Jeff Newmanish" gem IMHO.
JE:-)>

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 19 Jan 2006 1:14 pm

Paul- Thanks for sharing that pentatonic insight. It's amazing what we DON'T see, and how obvious it is once we DO see it. I laughed when I sat down and tried it out- NOW it seems obvious!

Thanks so much for taking the time to share this information with us. You da man!

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 19 Jan 2006 8:37 pm

Thanks guys.

Seeing the pedals in musical terms helps open doors.

Here is a correction to be made within my original post. The G7th scale only needs the pentatonic lever and the E's to Eb lever activated for the correct pentatonic scale over a "G" chord at the 8th fret.

When the B pedal is added, as I posted earlier this morning, it adds the notes of the blues scale which also works well over a G7th chord.

Bob, You have great ears. I get to play alot of distorted steel. The lever is priceless.

Paul[This message was edited by Franklin on 20 January 2006 at 04:39 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Jan 2006 8:45 pm

I bet that "utility" guys like Kevin are covering those lines on guitar instead of steel.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 19 Jan 2006 9:04 pm

Bob,

It happens all the time.

Paul
[This message was edited by Franklin on 20 January 2006 at 04:41 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Jan 2006 3:30 am

Elvis..is IN the building ....

t

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 20 Jan 2006 8:27 am

Chet Atkins once said, " I wish that I could play it twice the same way." Connie Smith's "I'll Come Running" presented a serious challenge to those who are fond of
emulating steel guitar greats. Having the ability to succeed in this endeavor is very impressive.
A lot depends on the individual seated at the steel guitar. Knee levers play a huge part in getting those elusive sounds heard in recordings, including both 2nd and
9th changes. Still, without the hands of Franklin, Emmons, Green, Myrick, and many others, the work is unfinished.

Bill

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 20 Jan 2006 9:05 am

I want to again thank Paul Franklin for taking the time to come on this forum and answer our questions. His depth of knowledge goes far beyond most of us here. His answers are extremely helpful.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Jan 2006 11:04 am

Okay, I gotta admit that this bugs me a bit. On the first page of this topic, I posted a pentatonic scale using the 2nd and 9th lower:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> <pre>F#____8___________________________
D#_________8LL____________________
G#__8_____________________________
E ______8L________________________
B _____________8__________________
G#_______________8________________
F#_________________8______________
E ___________________8L___________
D ______________________8L________
B _________________________8______ </pre> Noodling up and down the strings on this position gives you a ton of blues licks in E, and blues licks are what's required in a lot of the NCS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This was ignored as irrelevant to the subject until Paul Franklin posted: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ... I use it when I play solos that rock. Without this change finding easy positions across the fretboard becomes much more difficult.

In the key of C, at the 8th fret, activate the lever lowering the 2nd string a whole tone and the 9th string a 1/2 tone (the pentatonic lever) and pick the strings in this order to hear the sound of a descending scale, 3-1-4-2-5-6-7-8-9-10.

Now leave the lever activated and also activate the "B" pedal with it and pick the same pattern for the F chord scale.

Now repeat the same picking sequence while activating the lever that lowers the E's to Eb along with the "pentatonic" lever and the "B" pedal for the G chord scale.
...
Here is a correction to be made within my original post. The G7th scale only needs the pentatonic lever and the E's to Eb lever activated for the correct pentatonic scale over a "G" chord at the 8th fret.

When the B pedal is added, as I posted earlier this morning, it adds the notes of the blues scale which also works well over a G7th chord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know if it was my lack of good communication skills or the fact that I lack cred when talking about "New Country", but either way it bugs me. It seemed that nobody "got" the concept at all until Paul explained it. Why is that?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by b0b on 20 January 2006 at 11:05 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 20 Jan 2006 11:33 am

My "ahHA!" was when Paul explained the 4 and 5 chord progression. Nothing personal, b0b! You got cred with me!

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 20 January 2006 at 11:34 AM.]

Steve Zinno · Post by **Steve Zinno** » 20 Jan 2006 11:36 am

Bob, let me be the first to admit to my own ignorance in missing that. I looked past your tab in order read subsequent text(s) and did not take the time to properly take in what you were saying.

For me, the thing in Paul's post that caught my attention was that he actually NAMED it "pentatonic lever". My beginners level of knowledge needed that and the extended explanation of use before I was able to properly visualize things.

In my opinion, you have excellent communication skills, vast knowledge of the instrument and music, and an uncanny ability to see things from another angle. So, my apologies!

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steve z.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 20 Jan 2006 11:38 am

b0b,
Your post was right on and very clear as to what the 2/9 stg change provided in terms of scale form, Paul just put some iceing on the cup cake with his expanded explination of how he uses it with the E-Eb lever and B pedal. You da man too!
JE:-)>

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 20 Jan 2006 11:40 am

b0b, You said "ton of blues licks". Paul said "pentatonic scale".

Wait....that's the same thing isn't it....

OK...never mind.

Thanks b0b. After you posted I went home and tried it out. Got Cred? Yep!!

Terry