New Player Steel Recommendation

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 9:52 am

Hi, I just joined today and would like a little advice on which steel to buy.

I am a bass/acoustic guitar player with lots of experience. I have been gigging the bass since the 80s.

I recently retired and really want to learn the steel, it is something I have wanted to do for a long time.

I would like suggestions on what to buy. I don't see doing anything but E9, I want to get an instrument that will stay in tune and play right but also don't want to spend anymore than I need to. Should I buy new or is used ok? Model suggestions for a beginner?

Thanks and looking forward to learning all about this great instrument.

Benjamin Davidson · Post by **Benjamin Davidson** » 28 May 2019 11:22 am

Welcome to the forum,

You're in a similar position that I was about a year ago. So far its been an interesting ride for me.

A used guitar is going to afford you less of an investment and potentially pay for lessons (I'm subscribed to the Paul Franklin Method - and I don't think there is a better online option available for instruction).

Any quality guitar with 3 floor pedals and 4 knee levers will get you going. Though a 4th floor for either G# to A# (faux C6) or the Franklin changes has become popular. As well as a 5th knee level (left knee vertical) to take the B to Bb.

I purchased a GFI student model (used) for the time period that Fred was building my Justice Pro-Lite. Simpler mechanics, but still could be modified and had to have the lowers on the right moving knees due to the pull-release changer. That guitar as far as I'm concerned sounds and plays well, most tell you to stay away from the student models due to those limitations, and to some extent I agree.

When you buy a steel with an all-Pull changer, your copedent options open up and you can adapt the entire guitar as your playing style opens up.

This forum has no shortage of great used guitars, each have their traits. I'm happy with my Justice Pro-Lite, and if you would like more information on that shoot me a PM.

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 12:22 pm

Thank you for your detailed reply Benjamin, I have looked at both guitars you mentioned. Do you think The student model is good enough for the first year or two?

Benjamin Davidson · Post by **Benjamin Davidson** » 28 May 2019 12:46 pm

Personally, I was pleased with the GFI Student Model. I knew when I bought it, it was only meant to cover the time frame that I was waiting for my Justice to be built.

To make the call of "good enough for the first year or two", I may not have enough experience to answer properly. The pull-release changer is limiting, but will allow you to learn the instrument.

Also look at the Justice S10 with a basic 2 raise 1 lower all pull changer.

Barry Coker · Post by **Barry Coker** » 28 May 2019 12:51 pm

Welcome to the Forum IMHO this is the best place to start your journey. A single 10 (S-10) Or Single Double 10 SD-10
will serve you well probably far longer than 2 years. 3&4 3&5 4&5 to start will all work. The key is a new student model can in some cases cost as much as a good used pro quality guitar. GFI. Stage-one Zum, and Justice are all great guitars. The old Sierra's were tanks and can be had for great prices. Do your home work and don't get too impatient remember if its too good to be true it probably is. Good luck and do what your doing "ASK SOMEONE" and there is no better place than here on the Forum.

Barry

Nicholas Scott · Post by **Nicholas Scott** » 28 May 2019 12:55 pm

Hey Doug,

Used is fine as long as it's not falling apart. You can typically find a good deal on the forum. Ask a lot of questions. My experience with everyone on the forum has been a positive one. It's a tight nit community and there are always people willing to help and answer any questions you may have. I would stay away from a Carter Starter. Benjamin's review of the GFI Student Model is a good one. I've never owned a GFI Student model but I've had a GFI Ultra and was very pleased with it. I know Fred builds fantastic guitars and everyone I know who owns a Justice is a happy customer. I would definitely suggest a guitar with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. That will keep you busy for a while. You might want to see if you can find a Zum Stage One. They come up for sale every now and then for an affordable price. They are great guitars and a lot of members use them as flight guitars because of the weight and quality. One reason I say to stay away from the Carter Starter is because of the quality of the mechanics. They are good to learn on but aren't built to last in my opinion. Feel free to shoot me a PM anytime. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 1:00 pm

Thanks Barry, I am a lost ball in high weeds for sure. I am saving my money and am probably 30 to 60 days out before I actually make a purchase unless I run on something cheaper than I think I will have to spend. That is the reason I joined the forum was to be able to spend a little time researching

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 1:02 pm

Benjamin I have never heard of Justice before today, thank you for letting me know about them.

Barry Coker · Post by **Barry Coker** » 28 May 2019 1:14 pm

Doug Real world probably $1800 - $2500 is going to be your shoot for range (give or take $200) There is a NICE SD-10 Williams 700 up on the forum now $2800.00. A good Stage-one or equal would be $1500 just watch the for sale adds and keep notes and always ask questions.

Barry

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 1:14 pm

Nicholas, thanks for the advice on the Carter, that is actually one I looked at yesterday online.i can already see this is going to be one nice place to hang out.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 28 May 2019 3:13 pm

In your situation, I would recommend contacting Doug Earnest at Stage One Steel Guitars and get on his waiting list for a Zumsteel Encore 3x5. Cost new is $1649 I believe. Mention you are a forum member when contacting him as he often is "not taking new orders" due to his backlog - but obviously he does at some point take new orders. There are lots of great guitars out there - people will all mention their particular brand bias. But I don't know any that offer the bang for the buck the Encore does. One good thing about them - if you wash out (and at least 1/2 of the people who attempt pedal steel do), you can sell it for what you paid for it - they sell like hotcakes on the used market, typically sold within hours of posting at purchase price.

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 28 May 2019 4:39 pm

I sent him an email this afternoon about the stage one

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 29 May 2019 8:35 am

Is the Carter S10 the one I should avoid? I found one for sale but it is a couple hours away.

Benjamin Davidson · Post by **Benjamin Davidson** » 29 May 2019 9:13 am

If its a student model, I would avoid it. If its a pro model, it will most likely serve you well. Make sure you get pictures of the undercarriage before making that drive. It should be apparent if it is the student with a picture of the undercarriage:

A solid thread on the Student that I grabbed the above pic on.
viewtopic.php?t=231092&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

My concern with the Carter Student is that lack of easy adjustment to copedent as you grow.

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 3 Jun 2019 8:02 am

I would like to thank everyone for their helpful replies. I have decided to order a new Stage One from Doug. In the meantime I have ordered a lap steel so I can get started working on the bar and blocking.

Wish me luck!

Barry Coker · Post by **Barry Coker** » 3 Jun 2019 9:47 am

Good Luck Doug and great choice.

Barry

James Taylor · Post by **James Taylor** » 8 Jun 2019 8:26 am

Hi Doug,
I would agree with all that has been said. I have a ZUM ENCORE and it is a tremendous guitar; very similar to what you have ordered. Doug is a great block to deal with too and you will be well pleased.
Best Wishes

JAMES TAYLOR

James Taylor · Post by **James Taylor** » 8 Jun 2019 8:27 am

Hi Doug,
I would agree with all that has been said. I have a ZUM ENCORE and it is a tremendous guitar; very similar to what you have ordered. Doug is a great block to deal with too and you will be well pleased.
Best Wishes

JAMES TAYLOR

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 8 Jun 2019 8:35 am

Thanks

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 9 Jun 2019 1:02 am

Hi Doug, congratulations on your decision to jump into this. I think your decision to buy new is a great one. I don't know how old you are, but you may want to give some consideration to your ABC pedal set up. There are 2 configurations - Day & Emmons. If you learn how each works, you will see that each one will have your ankle bending one way or the other most of the time, and you can decide which way your ankle will like better. Most people use Emmons, it appears, but a lot of us like the Day set up better. A really good advantage of buying new, is that you can have it set up the way you think will work for you best, and don't just have to learn someone else's copedant, or have to work on it, or have it worked on right out of the gate.

Like you, I'd been wanting to play pedal steel most of my life, and finally made the decision to take the leap about 2 yrs ago - and have loved every minute of it. I took the exact same path you are taking. I ordered a brand new MSA, and bought an 8-string console to work on my right hand with until it was built (about 10 months). This approach to it served me well, and also got me into bar slants as well.
You are in the right place, as this place is an invaluable resource for this endeavor - like none other I have ever seen. Good luck!

Doug Taylor · Post by **Doug Taylor** » 9 Jun 2019 10:54 am

Thanks for the info Bobby, I have been messing with the lap steel 4 days now, the blocking is sure giving me a hard time right now. I did not know it was possible to get so many bad squeaky sounds out of an instrument!

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 10 Jun 2019 1:41 am

A copy of Jeff Newman's "Right Hand Alpha" might help you get a start. It's an old course, and there are a lot of different opinions on right hand technique these days, but it's a good place to start.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 10 Jun 2019 4:58 am

I agree. It unteaches you any picking technique you may have brought from another instrument!

John Spaulding · Post by **John Spaulding** » 10 Jun 2019 6:07 am

Much has changed since Jeff's courses were published and you might be better served with a more modern approach that shows all of the available picking and blocking options and lets you choose what works for you.

Paul Franklin's Foundations: E9 Pedal Steel Basics will get you started on the right path.

Bobby Nelson · Post by **Bobby Nelson** » 10 Jun 2019 8:12 am

I agree John, my own tendency is to lean more toward pick blocking, and tucking my 3rd finger under to block. But, At $20.00, Right Hand Alpha is a pretty comprehensive look at palm blocking. I am certainly no authority on the right way to block anything haha. But, taking a look at all the differing ways can't hurt I don't think.