2'nd String

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 1 Nov 2005 8:51 am

Does anybody else play with their 2'nd string tuned to a D instead of D#? I have mine at D, and I raise it to an E on my lever that raises the F#. I am considering a 6'th knee, to raise the D a half to D#. The D is nice for fast, but the D# is pretty in slow songs. Any feedback would be appreciated.

D-10 Fessy 8&5, Nashville 112, Session 500, Goodrich LDR

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 1 Nov 2005 8:59 am

Tyler,,

I have a 1/2 stop on a knee lever drops 2nd string from D# down to D, then on down to C#, this is a common change, different players just have it located in different places on thier guitars, then some don't use it at all. I don't raise the 2nd string, Prefference I quess.

Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 01 November 2005 at 09:00 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Nov 2005 9:01 am

Yes, I believe a few players still do this. Most notably, Weldon Myrick. (As I recall, Hal Rugg used it for awhile, too.) It's not as common as it once was, but you really need an Eb (D#) available on that string too!

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 1 Nov 2005 9:10 am

I like to raise the 2'nd to match the 4'th, then lower 2, and raise 4. Very, very pretty in slow stuff. I use the D and E a lot in fast stuff. I can get the D# by going on half the lever. But I can't get the D# without the 1'st going to about a G.

What do you guys think about another lever to raise a half. Someone told me not to use a half-stop on that knee.

D-10 Fessenden, Nashville 112, Session 500, Goodrich LDR

Tommy Roten · Post by **Tommy Roten** » 1 Nov 2005 9:11 am

I do the exact same thing, raise it to e, so the 2nd string and 4th string actually "changes roles" lowering the 4th string a half step. I'm a big fan of the 7th you get in "open" posision, and that bluesy minor third in IV posision, but I do miss the Eb on the ballad stuff though, and when i'm playing two frets below open posision. But it's a compromise...

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Franklin D-10, MSA D-10, Goodrich volped, Mesa Boogie Quad preamp, ProfexII, Mosvalve 1500, 2xEminence 12", Rivera 212, Nashville 400,
www.tommy-steel.com
pertrot@frisurf.no

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 1 Nov 2005 9:44 am

*

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 November 2005 at 11:28 AM.]

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 1 Nov 2005 10:18 am

Gene J.

When you find that use, please let me know!!! I'm begining to have the same thoughts about the 1/2 stop on my 2nd string!!

Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 1 Nov 2005 10:21 am

Hi Tyler,
I use a D for my 2nd string. I was inspired to do that from listening to Jimmie Crawford. I believe that Hal and Weldon tuned their 2nd strings to C#. Anyway, using the Crawford setup, here's what I do:
RKR D-D#
LKR D-C#
P8 D-E and F#-G

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Nov 2005 10:46 am

I think a lot of us who learned a thing or two from Jimmie C tune our second string to D. A bunch of us also like to lower G# to G -- another JC change.

You do need the D#. Bank on it. Plan on it.

I just use Dom7 chords more often than Ma7, so I'm perfectly happy to hit a lever to get the D# and have the D as part of the open tuning.

But I do want that Ma7 -- WITH THE TONIC ON THE 4th STRING -- can't get that nice dissonance by lowering 4 to D#.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 1 Nov 2005 10:55 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 November 2005 at 11:27 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Nov 2005 12:42 pm

I got used to it. Far more useful than I first thought.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 1 Nov 2005 2:12 pm

I play a 12 string with the 2nd and 9th strings both tuned to C#. I have knee levers to raise them back to D and D# when needed. With the E's lowered and playing in the B6th mode they serve the same purpose as the 1st and 7th strings in E9th....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 1 Nov 2005 3:42 pm

I thought a 1/2 stop on the second string was standard. Kind-a like white letter tires in a SUV ???? :confused

Bill

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Nov 2005 4:19 pm

The D# note is a scale tone in several common positions. Consider the positions in the key of C, and what note the second string at D# provides:
<pre>
fret chord pedals str2
&levers note
1 F (Dm) (A) E
3 G (Em) (A) F# <-- lower to F
4 F A+F G
6 G7 F A
8 C (Am) (A) B
10 G A+B C# <-- lower to C
11 C7 F D </pre> At five of the seven common positions, the D# string provides a scale tone. At the other two, you need to lower it to D to get a scale tone.

The scale tones are extremely useful in constructing melodies in the chord pockets.

This is why the standard tuning uses a D# for the second string. It's used more often than D or C#, so it makes sense to tune the string to D# and get the D and C# notes with a knee lever.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 1 Nov 2005 7:04 pm

I guess it's just what you're used to. Recently the 1/2 stop wasn't working on my knee, so I lowered to D. I was a fish out of water. Can't live without that double lower.

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Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 1 Nov 2005 9:11 pm

I tune my 2nd string to D,raise it to D# on one knee and lower it to C# & lower 6th string to F# on another knee.
Terry Bethel turned me onto it and Jimmie Crawford turned him onto it.

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Keep pickin', Larry

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 2 Nov 2005 8:06 am

Thanks for the response. I want to add another LKL to my Fessenden, but I want to figure out if it's worth $200. Since I raise my second string a whole on my LKR, would it be a good idea to raise it a half on LKL? If I add another LKL, I will have to rig it up, as there is no spare crossrod.

D-10 Fessenden, Nashville 112, Session 500

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Nov 2005 8:29 am

Tyler, what happens to those of us that RAISE the 2nd string to an E..along with the double lower ?

I think the D natural is interesting but I am also thinking the same double stop raise issues may arise..no ?

What does Weldon do here ?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 2 Nov 2005 2:34 pm

Last I saw, Weldon tuned to C# and raised to D and D# with a half-stop. No E. That was a while back and he may have changed but I suspect not.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 3 Nov 2005 7:39 am

I think I'm going to put the D to D# on another LKL, then have D to E on LKR. The kit for the knee lever is $200. I just wanted to see if I should add a half-stop, or just another knee.

You can never have too many knee levers. Look at John Hughey!

D-10 Fessenden, Nashville 112, Session 500, Goodrich LDR

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 3 Nov 2005 11:02 am

He only has nine.
Buddy Cage has FOURTEEN.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 3 Nov 2005 2:00 pm

I get confused with 5 most of the time. Or at least if I mess up, that's what i blame it on!

D-10 Fessenden, Nashville 112, Session 500, Goodrich LDR