Just Play the Melody, a comment...

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 31 Oct 2005 1:24 pm

Whilst taking a break from pounding my left thumb with a hammer this weekend, I watched all of this Jeff Newman video set. I have only one disagreement with Jeff.

I like to hear the steel play all of the time. Perhaps that's something that could be done to improve today's "country" music. I think some of the prettiest stuff ever made was like Big E playing behind Ray Price where the steel was "on" all the time. Thank goodness they "didn't know what they were doing yet" (as Jeff put it in the video). Them is some of the tunes I like to hear most often.

Bill Gideon · Post by **Bill Gideon** » 31 Oct 2005 1:30 pm

Ray, that was my point when I posted what happened to the music. It's in the MUSIC category.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 31 Oct 2005 2:17 pm

I'ze just tryin' to be polite and not hijack your thread Bill... I do agree with what you posted also.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 31 October 2005 at 02:18 PM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 31 Oct 2005 2:30 pm

"Play all the time". That is the bane of many steelers and some good steelers I've heard. They don't know when to stop.

Did you also listen to Jeff's words about "show me what you can't play".

I'm not knocking anything Buddy has ever done - EVERYTHING he's done is great. But, I've got a lot of jobs - and it was traditional country music - because I don't play all the time.

Listen close to the "greats" (and I'm not going to name names for fear of forgetting someone). They do not play ALL the time.

Jim Hankins · Post by **Jim Hankins** » 31 Oct 2005 2:58 pm

I would like to hear the the steel played regularly through out songs or even entire vocal CDs more. I beleive it can be done tastefully and be thoroughly enjoyable, as recently exemplified by : Justin Trevino "Scene of the Cryin" and Red Kilby: "Keepin it Real"

John Bresler R.I.P. · Post by **John Bresler R.I.P.** » 31 Oct 2005 4:10 pm

I always liked the way the late Danny Shields played behind a singer. When it was his turn, he was very present. When another instrument was playing the licks, Danny was quietly present, but still could be heard playing chimes, chords, even rhythmn. All done very tastefully.

Rodney Garrison · Post by **Rodney Garrison** » 31 Oct 2005 5:06 pm

My children always heard what I would say when I'd whisper ! I also enjoyed it !
Rodney

Dave Hadley · Post by **Dave Hadley** » 31 Oct 2005 5:15 pm

Exactly! Great reply....
It's not only what you play but when & how you play it.
Music is not one instrument..
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 31 Oct 2005 5:31 pm

Everyone should follow their own inner voice. Playing the melody is great, so is playing counterpoint, and so is nice soft padding that's barely noticeable. Some players play too little...Emmons' work on "It Should Be Easier Now" and Walter Haynes' work on "Crazy" come to mind...nice (what there is), but I'd sure have liked to have heard a lot more! Some do overplay (maybe Curly Chalker?), but I don't think many people minded, he was so great. And yes (present company excepted), some guys are doing us a favor when they don't play very much!

It's really hard to state hard-fast rules about this kind of thing. So much depends on the player, the song, the vocalist, and the other instrumentation. Yeah, if you're playing with a 12-piece band, you ain't supposed to be a star. On the other hand, if you're playing in a little 3-piece group, you'd better not be "laying out" too much. (The other 2 guys might get a little ticked.)

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 31 Oct 2005 6:33 pm

As steelguitar players we all love to hear the steel player and what he has to offer but playing all of the time is too much icing on the cake and can become boring..Now Ernest Tubb's music was a little different in that it had lots of Steel and lead playing off each other so a lot of steel was great..Just my 2 cents worth...RS

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Franklin Guitars

[This message was edited by Ron Scott on 31 October 2005 at 06:34 PM.]

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 31 Oct 2005 10:36 pm

Just such a tune is now featured on the "Jerry's Music" page of the Jerry Byrd Fan Club. It's a tune by Bob Eaton and is entitled "Second Hand Heart" and Jerry does the intro, all backup throughout, etc.
Give it a listen and see if this is what you had in mind.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Nov 2005 4:27 am

I get bored hearing the melody all the time.
But then, I like jazz.

I've always heard harmony; the melody is already in my head.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Nov 2005 10:54 am

oops -- see below
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 November 2005 at 11:09 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Nov 2005 11:08 am

Anybody who tells you to JUST DO ANYTHING is giving bad advice, IMHO. Playing music and improvising solos and fills and pads requires the player to keep an open mind. Eventually you'll realize that the only bad note is one that isn't resolved properly.

Don't
- just play the melody
- always use two string harmonies
- play it just like somebody else told you to

Imposing any kind of limits like those on your musical choices serves to make all steel guitar playing sound the same. It ignores the fact that steel guitar is capable of so much more than has yet been tapped. We're all still learning the diversity and power of the instrument. Don't screw that up by imposing artificial limits.

NOW . . .
That said . . .
I believe that the melody is ONE CHOICE among many as a musical idea for a solo or a fill part. A good player CAN PLAY THE MELODY --- harmonized and arranged in many different ways. I never said DON'T PLAY THE MELODY . . . just DON'T JUST PLAY THE MELODY.

oh yeah, and playing all the time is like eating a steak for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week. Pretty soon you forget what a treat a good steak is.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 1 Nov 2005 11:27 am

Good analogy Larry.
Steel all the way through a song, non-stop, over the vocals, drives me nuts!
Fills, Turnarounds, and Solos are my preference.
It also makes mixing down a recording a lot easier if the steel player is disciplined when laying down a track, and not overplaying.

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 1 Nov 2005 4:40 pm

I think some of the prettiest stuff ever made was like Big E playing behind Ray Price where the steel was "on" all the time.

Ray, could you mention a specific song title from the Price canon as an example of what you're talking about?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Nov 2005 5:45 pm

I have only one disagreement with Jeff. -RM-

Well, in theory, the odds are even or slightly better that you'll get to take it up with him, depending on how you live your life.

Seriously, though not a total Jeff Newmann fan, I recognize a lot of his comments to be unabashed, and if not totally correct by everybody's standards, at least he wasn't afraid to put them out there before "testing the water".

He had a mind of his own, and a good one.

Something I sorely miss in today's world.

I sure agree that being able to play melody is a requisite for saleable embellishment.

EJL

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 1 Nov 2005 7:14 pm

I hope no one thinks I'm being disrespectful of Jeff's mastery of the instrument and his musicianship. That is furthest from my motivation for the comment. I'm spending a lot of time with his videos, and am learning a lot about where a bunch of the stuff I've heard and loved from the guitar actually exists on the fretboard. For this, and his instructions, I am extremely grateful.

Jeff E., I'll have you an example shortly from the Ray Price box set. [This message was edited by Ray Minich on 01 November 2005 at 07:14 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Nov 2005 7:36 pm

Me neither. I have a bunch of old stuff on a Willie Nelson Golden Hits tape that has steel ALL over it. I think it was JCD.

I'm just glad that Music in General is not subject to anybody's particular demands.

Selah.

EJL

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 2 Nov 2005 6:27 am

Jeff E., the "radio released" version of "Soft Rain" is a good example. When the fiddle ain't playin', Buddy is.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 2 Nov 2005 7:25 am

The point Jeff was trying to make was to get new and intermediate players to lighten up a bit.

Example: the guy who plays along with CDs in the back bedroom, oblivious to what is happening on the recordings. Then he gets on stage or in a jam and just wails away, drowning everyone else out.

Example: the picker who doesn't really listen to his intonation, just grabs the 4,5 and 6 strings at every opportunity and mashes the pedals.

Last example: The player who picks the same three licks on every tune, regardlss of the tune, the stops or the melody.

Jeff's rule were made to be broken. But you have to be good enough to know when and where to break them. Pedal steel -- one of the biggest instruments onstage -- and harmonica -- one of the smallest -- share this; they aren''t really rhythm instruments and the players have too much time on their hands. So they start noodling around when they should be drinking their beer (joke fellas) or flirting with the girls in the audience (nother joke).

Buddy Emmons can "noodle" around -- most of the rest of us, myself included, needed to be a bit more humble. But let's get real; how's you chiming ability? How many wicked now you hear them, now you don't licks do you have, etc?

Learning not to play is one of the hardest lessons, and the one that takes you out of the bedroom and onto the stage -- and be asked to return to the bright lights on a regular basis! :- )

[This message was edited by Tom Quinn on 02 November 2005 at 07:30 AM.]