Bud Isaacs Bigsby on Ebay? Bobbe, any info?

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 9 Oct 2005 8:39 pm

This can't be it, can it? I thought Bud's guitar was a wooden neck model, and I thought it was owned by somebody on the east coast who would never sell it?

This can't be the "Slowly" guitar, can it?

CS

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 10 Oct 2005 1:33 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/1949-Bigsb y...ViewItem

....ouch[This message was edited by b0b on 11 October 2005 at 03:23 PM.]

rpetersen · Post by **rpetersen** » 10 Oct 2005 2:53 am

I have no idea, but Did the "Slowly" guitar have that many pedals?? I thought it just had one change on the song, unless that is what the updates left it looking like.

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Ron Petersen &
The Keep'n Tyme Band
Mullen Universal 12 - LDG SHO BUD - 1975 Session 400 LTD - Vegas 400 - ETC.

[This message was edited by rpetersen on 10 October 2005 at 03:54 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 10 Oct 2005 5:04 am

My understanding (which of course could be incorrect) is that the "Slowly" guitar had the tone changers that were plungers coming up through the peghead, one of PA's designs that went away in the early 50's. I don't see the holes in the peghead area that would be there for the plungers.

Also, I believe the "Slowly" guitar is in the possession of Jack Hamlett.

This could be another guitar built for Bud Isaacs, or it could be that someone with a lettering punch set decided to create a little *history* for the instrument. I've heard of that happening a few times.

Regardless, it looks like an excellent example of the real thing, even if the truthfulness of the claims of previous ownership are in doubt. Interesting to see what this puppy will bring.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 10 October 2005 at 06:07 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 10 Oct 2005 9:12 am

Upon closer inspection of the photo, it looks like the first neck has a plugged hole where the plungers would go. It may very well have been have been owned by Bud I., but I don't think it's the Slowly guitar, unless Jack Hamlett parted with it and took his nameplate off the front.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Oct 2005 9:52 am

Well, I don't care who owned it, that's a beautiful and historic Bigsby D8 pedal steel. I didn't realize Bigsby was making them all the way back in the '40s. I thought Bud I. had the first one in the '50s. But I guess he just was the first one to use pedaled notes on a commercial hit. Also, I thought Joaquin and Speedy were known for there non-pedal work. Did they have pedals but didn't use them, or did they give them up and go back to no-pedals, or what? The history of the transition from non-pedal to pedal steel (and then on to the D10, or back to non-pedal for some) is fascinating to me. And the early Bigsby pedal steels are the focal point of the transition.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 10 Oct 2005 2:35 pm

About 5 years ago, Jack Hamlett played his Bigsby at the PSGA show. I was under the impression that it originally belonged to Bud Carter. Am I mistaken?[This message was edited by HowardR on 10 October 2005 at 03:35 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Oct 2005 9:08 pm

Get ready to pay high, the owner of this guitar paid me many bucks for it because I didn't want to sell it, I'm sorry I did.
But I'll vouch for this guitar and I know it's history from day one. Ernie Ball was the number one owner. Modern Bigsby pedals were added by famous Bigsby mechanic "Rudy Farmer" in the lat 50's. This guitar has a nice history, I even played it on several steel shows but have since replaced it in my collection with D-8 a wood neck 5 pedal Bigsby, actually, just like the one Bud Iaascs had, yep, like the slowly guitar.
Anyway, this little D-8 guitar on e-bay is truly top shelf. Great pedal set up on it too, pretty standard like todays.

Bobbe

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Oct 2005 9:17 pm

By the way, Rudy Farmer did a lot of Bigsby work in the 50s and 60s. He used all authentic Paul Bigsby parts from Paul himself. He had Paul's blessings and I think Paul even sent him work to do that he didn't have time to do himself. I have had several Bigsby steels with Rudy's name on them as having been serviced by him.
Rudy, also a Californian.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Oct 2005 9:22 pm

HowardR, "R" you kidding, again? Bud Carter never owned a Bigsby. He didn't have to, he owned a Sho-Bud Pro one. A ten he converted to a 12 I think.
Yes, Bud is an astounding player, A BIG CHORD JAZZER. Wish he'd play more, but he's busy becoming a millionaire.
I'm busy too, but not really having all that much luck.

Bobbster

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Oct 2005 5:39 am

Aha, one of the Ernie Ball guitars! I too know of this instrument and its owner, it's a good one fer sure. Look for big bux on this one. It's the Real Deal.

BTW, these Bigby guitars, with a little tinkering of the return springs, can play as easy as any guitar today (likewise a Sho-Bud Permanent). They can't handle a complicated setup, but if you dedicate pedals 1 and 2 to a D9 tuning (like A and B on E9), and pedals 3-5 like pedals 5-7 on C6, a whole evening of traditional country is a snap. I've done it many times. I have a 1949 T-8, and a PA Reissue 10-10-8, both of which play like buddah.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2005 7:31 am

You got it Herb. This one already has exactly the set up you have eluded to in your post. A very playable guitar in presteen condition.

bobbe

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 11 Oct 2005 8:33 am

I bet it doesn't outbid Britney Spears bra

Bill Quinn · Post by **Bill Quinn** » 11 Oct 2005 10:06 am

Any early predictions on the final high bid?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2005 3:55 pm

Chris, you said a mouth full there! (almost)[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 11 October 2005 at 04:55 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2005 4:10 pm

At Christy's auction, I saw where Eric Clapton's black Stratacaster sold for $850,000.00, yes, eight hundred fifty thousand dollars. His red Gibson sold for $750,000.00.
So why can't this Bigsby do the same? I can do the same,in my book.
Ask me which I'd rather have, Claptons or Paul Bigsby's. But that is just me, a steel player with great memories.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 11 Oct 2005 5:43 pm

I don't think 'Blackie' is a fair comparison. When one considers how many guitarists and guitar collectors there are and the history of the sale price of other 'historical' guitars (e.g., Hendrix' guitars and others from Clapton's collection) it's not surprising. I find two things interesting about 'Blackie' selling for so much -- it was a bastard guitar made from several others AND those it was made from were bought at SHO-BUD when Clapton was there in the 70s.

interesting quote, BTW -- somewhat ironic for this audience: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Right after I'd seen Steve Winwood playing his white Strat," begins Eric, "I was in Nashville and I went into this shop called Sho-Bud where they had stacks of Strats going for virtually nothing because they were so unfashionable and so unwanted. I bought a big pile of them all for a song - they were really cheap, like three or $400 each - and I took them home and gave them out. I gave Steve one, I gave Pete Townshend one, I gave George Harrison one and I kept a few. I made Blackie out of a group of them; I took the pickups out of one, the scratchplate off another and the neck off another and I made my own guitar - a hybrid guitar that had all the best bits from all these Strats.

"I wore it out too. Its pretty well inaccessible now - there's not much of the neck left. It's worn away on either side and on the back with wear and tear.

"What makes Blackie unique for me is the fact that I made it! It was one of the last guitars that I actually built myself, really. Therefore it felt like it was invested with some kind of soul, you know" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm certainly no expert, nor collector, but I've only heard of a handfull (or less) of steel guitars selling for more than 1/100 of what the pedigreed, vintage 6 strings go for. It's just a fact, no matter how we might wish that the Bigsby in our closet (that's YOUR closet, not mine) will go for several hundred grand or more it's just not very likely to happen in this lifetime.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 11 October 2005 at 06:47 PM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Oct 2005 6:08 pm

It's just a fact, no matter how we might wish that the Bigsby in our closet (that's YOUR closet, not mine) will go for several hundred grand or more it's just not very likely to happen in this lifetime.

Larry, I don't need or expect "several hundred grand." Just ONE hundred grand would be acceptable for me.

Try me, somebody, if you think I'm joking.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 11 October 2005 at 07:22 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2005 6:10 pm

This is very interesting history Larry! I'm sure we can all enjoy knowing that this parts guitar came from Sho-Bud.
Actually where it came from or how it was made did nothing for it's value, it's value came from the fame of the person that played and assembaled it. So this makes this $400.00 used Strat value go to $850,000.00. The guitar by it's self without Eric's fame is worth what?
Back to the Bigsby prices. You are Correct Larry, a Bigsby by it's self without a famous history is "only" worth about $10,000.00. A "Parts Strat" without a famous history, is worth possibly $300.00???

The Bigsby on E-bay wins because of what it is, not because of who owned it

Now we get into the Bud Isaacs "Slowly" guitar, this is the guitar that changed the entire world of steel guitar. I know it's worth over $35,000.00. I know because I offered it's owner this amount for it eight years ago.
The guitar would not be worth anywhere near this without its history changing past.
Me? I'll take one without the history if I'm watching my pennies. With the Iaasics guitar though I'm not watching my pennies.
The moral here is, what are the guitars worth against what is the persons fame is worth. What sold at Christy's was the fame of the owner mostly, not the true/real value of the guitar.
Just like a below average steel player may become very famous because he is working for a very famous star, and a truly great player may never ger recognition because he doesn't. How many of those guys can you name? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 11 October 2005 at 07:18 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 11 October 2005 at 07:20 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 11 Oct 2005 8:39 pm

Bobbe, it seems to me that the two situations are quite parallel. Sure, Clapton's guitar is worth so much because it was Clapton's. Otherwise it's just a hunk of wood and metal. Isaacs' guitar is worth over $35K because it was owned by Isaacs who played on "Slowly" and changed the future of country music. Otherwise you'd have only offered $10K for it, like the other Bigsby's and the owner likely would have accepted your offer. So in both cases, the biggest part of the instrument's value derives from who used to own it, not what it actually is. Of course, there's a different order of magnitude going on here between them, but that's just cuz there's millions more people who know and idolize Clapton than who know and idolize Isaacs (with all due respect to Bud).

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Oct 2005 9:04 pm

Great , you understand what I said! You just said it better, and with less words.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Oct 2005 3:38 am

Gee, that's funny... I thought I was disagreeing with you. Oh well, no matter...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Oct 2005 4:01 am

Ernie Ball was the number one owner.

So then, this wasn't really Bud Isaacs' guitar? (Am I missing something?)

I'm no expert, but if I had to guess from the pictures (and that's hard, sometimes), it appears the "Roy Lunn" stamping predates the "Bud Isaaics" stamping. (Spelling?)

I know it's a Bigsby, and I know it's worth big bucks.

But...?

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 12 Oct 2005 4:33 am

No, the one on ebay is not Bud Isaacs' guitar, Bud's had woodnecks like Chris says in his post. THIS, I believe, is the famous "Slowly" guitar: http://www.steelguitar.com/webpix/showpix/gsga97px/gsga9710.htm

and here:

http://www.steelguitar.com/webpix/showpix/psga00px/psga0014.html [This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 12 October 2005 at 05:37 AM.][This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 12 October 2005 at 05:39 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 12 Oct 2005 8:53 pm

Yes Jussi, you are correct. Jack Hammond has the "Slowly" recorded steel guitar. The first recorded "E to A" pedal change. The world went bonkers over the sound of this change. Bud Isaacs had a great career launched by this change and Paul Bigsby didn't hurt to bad on the deal either.
Yes, there were several "Pedal" Bigsby guitars built before this guitar, however, none had this pedal that changed the world until Bud.
Most wood neck Bigsbys had wood keyheads also, for some reason, Buds didn't.
The full aluminum neck guitars did have a serious expantion/contraction problem, as all owners of these guitars will tell you, so the wood necks were prefered by the most discriminating players. About 20% of Bigsbys had wood necks, and Shot Jackson of Sho-Bud modified several of Paul's guitars to have a wood insert in the necks: Buddie's, Walter Hains's, Jerry Girard's and a couple of more I know of.
Great old guitars and the legend is growing fast. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 13 October 2005 at 05:35 AM.]