Anything like a Sierra?

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 12 Dec 2001 2:40 pm

I tried a Sierra lap yesterday - fabulous! Beautifully built, heavy, solid, great sound and sustain. I nearly bought it there and then. But it's an 8-string and I'm learning 6. I know I could take two strings off, or learn to add those extra strings to my playing - I know the advantages I'd gain, in theory - but I feel I'm a 6-string player. If Sierra made one, I'd buy it in a second.
Anyone know any other maker that builds them as solid? I've tried Gibsons, Fenders, and bakelite Ricky's.....
Tony.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 12 Dec 2001 5:24 pm

Nonsense! Go for the Sierra 8 stringer!

Del Rangel · Post by **Del Rangel** » 12 Dec 2001 11:12 pm

Sierra makes a fine product. However, in my humble opinion a Melobar 8 string lapsteel is a better all around deal--a great instrument at a doable price. [This message was edited by Del Rangel on 13 December 2001 at 11:36 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Dec 2001 9:05 am

Go for the 8 string! Eventually you're going to get into 6th tunings and then you'll really appreciate those extra strings.
I would never consider buying a steel with any less than 8 strings. If fact, I play a dobro with 8 strings. Strings are like guitars, amps, effects, etc., you can never have too many!
Erv

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 13 Dec 2001 3:00 pm

You are making a very BIG mistake!!! 6 string guitars were fine back in the early days into the fifty era (E maj.,C#m,D9,F#9 et al), but as with all things, (cars, 8 tracks, cassette, lp, cd, etc), changes come along usually for the better. And so it is with the 8 string steel guitar. I seldom play a 6 string, only when teaching those with a 6 string....(most convert to 8 within a short period of time). You will want to convert also, mark my words. Buy that 8 string and enjoy! The only pro I know of who was still playing 6 string prior to his illness was/is Bud Tutmarc who used C#m exclusively on all his recordings.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 13 Dec 2001 3:09 pm

My experience seems to go against the tide of practically every other steel player I've met. I spent many years on standard guitar before playing steel then about 10 years on 8-string steels. For the last few years I've played 6-string steels exclusively and personally, I find I make more music and better music by constraining my options and searching for the very most I can get out of just six strings. I figure Sol Ho'op'ii, Dick McIntire, Django, Barney Kessel, Wes, etc. didn't need more than 6 so why do I? No need to flame - this is merely my personal experience. [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 13 December 2001 at 03:10 PM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 13 Dec 2001 4:50 pm

Hey, Tony, I'd have to jump in and say you'll never regret the Sierra- I have # 003 and it's still the best sounding lap steel I've ever played. 8 strings are definitely more versatile. But the other side is that beautiful music can sure come out of 6 string tunings. Listen to anything JB has done on 6... you'll have to use your own judgement on this. Why not spring for the 8 string and save up for another 6 string down the road? Play 'em both and make up your mind. As far as other companies making solid laps, the Melobars are really nice but much lighter and sound very different. Not as much sustain, etc. There are some custom models on the market, ebay usually has the "Georgeboards" which are solid Koa and probably closer to the Sierra, but even more expensive. I would think a pre-war bakelite Rick 6 would be as close as you'll find to a six string Sierra. Good luck!

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Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro - c'mon by and visit: www.markvanallen.com

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 13 Dec 2001 5:24 pm

Come on Tony! Fabulous ,Heavy, well built Great sound, sustain....etc.

What is stopping you? Just take two strings off, tune to a 6 string tuning and you are all set. I guarantee that you will put those 2 extra strings back on eventually and be glad you got it.......al

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 13 Dec 2001 5:45 pm

Go for it Tony!

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 14 Dec 2001 7:50 pm

Altho' Jerry Byrd's early guitar was a six string Rick, (the one in the country music hall of fame) he ultimately went to a SEVEN string Rick (see-Cover on Hi-Fi Guitar-album)
Take your 8-sting Sierra, tune it to Jerry's 7-string C6th + 7th, set-up, then drop the 8th string down to a very, very low bass, like JB did on Anne Jones "Too Old To Cut The Mustard" where he sounded like a bass fiddle.
That way, you'd have everything you could ever want to play pretty music with; several options and still have your preferred Sierra lap steel.
Jerry's B-11th would also be a great tuning for that 8 string Sierra.
Give it a tho't...then go for it. Don't be so quick to limit your musical talents "just because........" To be a successful musician you must learn to be flexible AND creative. Being set in your ways in the beginning is going to make the latter most difficult, IMHO. Good Luck to you!

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 17 Dec 2001 9:04 am

That was quite a slam on Melobar there Mark -
although I love Don, I can't let that go by, yes the Sierra has a much more Steel guitar sound - but I'll go head up, one on one, in sustain right now. We've built for a few players over the past 30 years and I've NEVER had one say "ted, if it just had more sustain" not sure why the shot Mark.

I want to add to Tony - I agree, if you love the sound of the guitar - don't worry about the 6 vs 8, you'll not loose what you've learned in 6, and that 8 spacing will become comfortable in just a couple of days, buy it.
You'll never be sorry you did. I know Don is having some trials over there, he's a wonderful guy and can use the support.[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 17 December 2001 at 10:28 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 19 Dec 2001 11:06 am

Hey, Ted, no slam, no shot! You know I love my melobars- they're just different from the Sierra. I'm sitting here playing 'em side by side- The Sierra has a different kind of fatter sustain characteristic, and I would think so with that chunk of metal all the way through the body connecting the headstock to the bridge, and strings through the body sunk into that metal piece. Some have compared Sierras to Old Ric's- I'm not so sure about that, I think the tone is fatter in the midrange and the midrange sustain is better. The melobars are all around smaller and less massive guitars, solid wood, and the bridge is bolted onto the top, like most Fenders. They have plenty of sustain- but of a different sort to me- more in the high end than the mids, and the basic sound is closer to a Fender lap steel than the Sierra is. And that's just my experience with the several Melobars I've owned- you guys make many models and I expect they sound different. As far as I know Sierra just makes the one lap guitar. Here's where the differences in player's tastes are everything- no one tone or sustain characteristic makes everybody's cup of tea. For some styles of music I play I prefer the sound and feel of the Sierra, for some I much prefer the Melobar. As Andy Volk says on his post about Gibson Console Grandes- apples and oranges. I owned a Sierra Pedal Guitar once and hated it- but lots of guys love 'em. No slams from me on Melobar- great guitars from a great builder.

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Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro - c'mon by and visit: www.markvanallen.com [This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 19 December 2001 at 11:10 AM.]

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 19 Dec 2001 7:58 pm

Mark, I think we all need to know what oranges you are comparing here. If I'm not mistaken you own a G-II Melobro, a Rattler and an Alder Supersteel, correct me if I'm wrong.
Have you ever compared the Sierra to the Maple CC-8? Which HAS a Steel Guitar pickup, in a Hardwood, with string through design.
We've never built {A} lap steel because different players have different taste, and we try to build for that. I don't buy that Sierra has more mid range than Melobar, I work my guts out trying to build the sound people want, most of you that know me, know that if you asked me to build a guitar that sounded just like a Sierra I'd try and do it for you, right down to the metal body. As I remember, Mark asked for the Lindley sound in his SS and that's what I tried to build for him. Although it will always happen - to take one instrument model - and call that (ALL) Melobars, or any other Brand, is not a right judgement, but I read players doing it all the time(what was the tuning, the string gauges, the amp setting, the bar, even the style of play?) there are hundreds of variables effecting tone and sound - but - their judgment is always IT. I've had to live and breath this stuff so long it just tires me (why do we try?) and I start to sound like Bill Lawrence which really scares me.

If people did not have different taste - they would all buy Fords.
[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 19 December 2001 at 08:00 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 19 December 2001 at 08:02 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 20 December 2001 at 07:16 AM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Dec 2001 8:53 pm

Atta boy Ted,,,you tell it like it is. Many
factors determine the tone and sound of a
particular instrument,,I had to jump in here.
I have heard your Melobar guitars and they R
second to none,,,,and perhaps a little bit
better.

Besides who the heck can play "Fireball Mail"
like Ted Smith?? your comments re mid range
etc are a matter of taste.
I dont think Mark meant any harm,,,its just
his opinion...like you said,,not everyone
likes a Ford,,,,go easy guys,,,we all have the same interest at heart...we just say it
in a different way.

Can I help it if I was raised on Fender guitars?? but there is room for everyone,,if I could I would have one of "everything" &
stay home all day and play em all ...

& I
hope to add a Melobar to my life soon.

Happy Holidays all you guys.

mikey · Post by **mikey** » 19 Dec 2001 9:17 pm

can ALWAYS leave 2 strings off...You WILL put them on later....get the 8
Mike
Altho...on acoustic, I can't go above 6, so Andy, I kinda agree, I seldom use the bottom 2 on the 8 anyway...except for 7th chords
Mike

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 20 Dec 2001 8:13 pm

What's with this wanton and reckless SLAMMING of "FORDS"? On WHAT do you bias YOUR opinion?

I just got rid of my CHebby......so what's wrong with FORDS? Huh? I have to ask you!

If I play BOTH pedal (P-P and cable) and non-pedal, do I have to get rid of my "FORD"???

Then WHAT do I get, a Volvo??? If I play both western swing and gospel, will a Volvo really be okay? How can this be happening on the Forum? What say you, eh?

I was told a "FORD" would be better since I'm playing Hawaiian Music now. Was I provided erroneous information?

Oh please, somebody....give me guidence!

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 21 Dec 2001 10:26 am

You see...
You GOT to drive a Ford or
"A Mercury and Cruise it up and Down the Road"[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 21 December 2001 at 11:17 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 22 Dec 2001 3:20 pm

Guess I'm glad I still had my flameproof suit out from putting up the Christmas tree...As I said, Ted, no slams from me toward Melobar. The guitars I've seen have all been uniformly nice. They've also been uniformly smaller and lighter than Sierra's laptop, and I do think the mass of that model contributes to the sound. If you go back to my last post you'll see "And that's just my experience with the several Melobars I've owned- you guys make many models and I expect they sound different." I do own a Melobro which I resolutely praise to all within earshot. Also a Rattler which I realize is a smaller lighter guitar, and has a great rock slide sound and versatile tone quality with good sustain. I've also owned quite a few different 8 string Melobars, and played some belonging to other folks, and all of them, though larger and a bit more massive than the Rattler, have a tone that to me is more similar to a Fender stringmaster than to the fatter Ric sound. Again, that Fender tone is exactly what a lot of people like, and those guitars with different pickups would sound different. You haven't ever built me a Super Steel so I can't comment on that, or of course on any of the many other styles you've experimented with. I've always thought that folks on the forum might realize that whenever someone raves about his new "so-and-so" brand guitar that he's only talking about the limited experience of that PARTICULAR guitar. My response to Tony's question was really about his indecision about the Sierra itself- and from my own personal comparisons, which are only just that. Your comment about being able to make a steel very similar to a Sierra is interesting- If you made one close in design to the Sierra, I'd certainly be happy to A-B them!!! But what would be the point? Sierra already makes that design. In the same way your melobros offer a fresh and re-thought alternative to the many wooden-bodied resonators out there, I think it's great that there are many choices of style and tone that just don't sound, look, or feel the same, enabling players to find their individual sound. There just isn't one kind of guitar for everybody, and I hope my comments don't reflect that I think there is. Melobars are fine steels, as are Sierras, Chandlers, Georgeboards, the new Gretches, etc. I've played examples of all those and others and they all sound great, and all very different. I think if Electric Guitarists had been limited to EITHER Les Pauls or Telecasters the world of recorded and performance music would be sadly diminished. Most guitarists are rabid devotees of their particular brand. And I think both of these are true of the Steel world as well.

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Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro - c'mon by and visit: www.markvanallen.com

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 22 Dec 2001 5:44 pm

Relax Mark, no flame thrower, but this is my livelihood and my life, and I disagree with your perception of the mid-range and sustain of our instruments, if I did, I'd be the first to make changes. I don't think it's unreasonable if you read a comment you think is wrong - to state your thoughts on the same subject, or do you want me to just bow down and not say anything? You and I have always got along well together in the past, I would have stated you were a friend if asked, I was surprised at your first post, but, Ford and Chevy, we can disagree on which is best for each of us - but - we don't have to have hard feelings over it, do we?
As I said to Tony in emails, and on this post, by all means, buy the Sierra, I'm slowing way down in when I'll take a guitar order because I'm tired of this kind of stuff. You made it a perfect end to a perfect year Mark.

[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 22 December 2001 at 05:45 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 22 December 2001 at 05:54 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 22 December 2001 at 07:21 PM.]

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 23 Dec 2001 7:55 am

Thanks for all your advice guys - I hope I haven't started a fight here! I've been in contact with Ted and he's been very helpful -the Melobars sound like fine guitars. The trouble with being here in England is that steels, especially lap steels, are few and far between, apart from the odd Guyatone (yucchh!) and the odd home-made job, so there's not the opportunity to try these instruments and compare them. I like the twin-neck Stringmaster I'm borrowing at the moment(a different sound I know) so unless I can convince my friend to sell me HALF of it, I'm going back to try the Sierra again...

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 23 Dec 2001 1:51 pm

No hard feelings on my side, Ted, I've just been trying to explain the position that seemed to ruffle your feathers. I just can't take a stand that one guitar is better than another- we all have different tones and styles in mind, and rather than apples and oranges, it's more like apples and volkswagens! I certainly understand and respect all you've been through in trying to provide great instruments in our weird little niche marketplace- and I've never said anything I consider to be negative about your great instruments. I only WISH I had a super-steel! Hope this clears things up. And anyone who cares as much about steel guitar as you do IS a friend of mine. Happy Holidays.

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Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro - c'mon by and visit: www.markvanallen.com