New Steel Day

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 26 Jul 2018 11:09 am

Later today I'll be picking up a new (to me) black mica MSA D-12. I'm finally going to learn the C6.

It has 10 pedals and 4 knees. It's currently disassembled, and I have to rebuild it, The neck will have 6 and 2. I was thinking of 5 and 1. Does anybody have any suggestions for the extra pedal and knee lever?

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 26 Jul 2018 12:48 pm

Lucky for you it's disassembled. How else would you get that beast up the front steps?
As I recall, it's quite a climb.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 26 Jul 2018 2:00 pm

I have a chain saw if you need to borrow. LOL

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 26 Jul 2018 3:29 pm

Greetings Mike! Maybe have the 9th pedal raise the third string to C# along with doing the same with the 7th string. If this is used with standard 8th pedal, it "cleans up" the clash of the #9 chord (C-C# change is repetitive on the 7th string) as well as it can be used alone and by stomping on it real fast, like a sewing machine, you can emulate the classic minor/major hammer-on that blues guitarists do.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 26 Jul 2018 9:29 pm

Lee, the guitar is in my rehearsal studio at the bottom of the hill. (Alongside my purple Millie and my amp.) After it's set up, I'll drive it to the house and wheel it to the top of the stairs and lower it down to the house on one of these 6 wheeled hand trucks they advertise on TV. Once it's inside, it's never going to be moved. Ir I get good enough on the C6 to use it when I perform, I'll sell both Millies and buy a lighter second D-12 and store it in the studio.

"F" carrying my steels up and down the stairs.

Chris, I've decided put the C to C# raise on the extra knee lever, and put bell cranks in place on the A strings. I will decide later whether I want the strings raised or lowered. With the bell cranks in place, it's simple matter of changing the rods.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 27 Jul 2018 3:19 am

Deleted, making changes.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 27 Jul 2018 12:05 pm

Hi Chris. At some future point, I will take the guitar to Jim Palenscar to be properly set up. I'll show him your design. He may use it.

I do not know enough about the undercarriage to make an informed decision as to whether or not to use these kinds of bell cranks.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 27 Jul 2018 12:26 pm

Cool, Mike. I like Jim.
I also don't know enough about MSAs to know if my design can easily be adapted, but I'm guessing there's an adaptation of the concept.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Jul 2018 6:37 am

That's wacky. In the cool sense of the term.
Probably not the easiest to machine.
Since original Sierras used the same size round shaft, and slotted bellcranks, I bet you could use a Sierra crank to achieve it on an MSA (assuming the D-10 is a pre-85)

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 28 Jul 2018 7:03 am

Thanks Lane.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 28 Jul 2018 7:21 am

Hey Mike: I think Rick Schmidt has the coolest D-12 setup so look for that if you have enough levers. Also here are some thoughts about the A string(s). If I had only one knee lever on C6, it would raise the higher A string to B with a good strong half stop at B flat.

viewtopic.php?t=295518&postdays=0&posto ... c&start=30

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 28 Jul 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Since I'm a newbie on the C6, I've decided to go with the standard 5 and 1, and leave the remaining pedal and knee lever blank, till I know more and then decide what I want.

If I get so proficient on the C neck that I want to perform with it, I'll sell both Millies, and buy a second D-12, the lightest one available.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 29 Jul 2018 1:20 am

Mike, a man with your musical knowledge will love C6 and you're probably right to tackle it on a twin-neck before trying it on the uni.

I have two suggestions (1) Make it 5 and 2, because in his Basic C6 course BE suggests raising 3 on a lever and (2) Tune down to B6. Radical maybe but I learnt that way so the transition to uni was seamless. Offsetting teaching materials will become second nature.

Enjoy!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 29 Jul 2018 9:45 am

Ian I have 2 knee levers, but I'm temporarily going to leave 1 blank. I'll figure out what I want on the extra pedal and knee lever after I've learned the basic 5 and 1.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jul 2018 10:00 am

MSAs, being pretty stout of body, can actually support pedals doing double duty (the increase in effort is noticeable but not intolerable), so you could actually exceed 6 pedals on the back neck, or 4 (or whatever your setup is) on the front.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Jul 2018 10:05 am

Mike - I thought your current guitars are E9/B6 Universals.

No?

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 29 Jul 2018 12:06 pm

Mike,

Sorry I missed your call. I have been out of town playing. I'm flattered that you asked and not sure what I could add to the good advice you have been given here.

If you want to spring for it, take Doug's (Earnest) advice and have Jim put Rick's setup on there. FWIW, with only two knees I'd put on the 4&8 lower as the second choice. On my 9+9 D-10's (6+5 on the hobby neck) I have pedal 8 on LKL (nice and fast but uses a otherwise valuable KL, so not recommended). I have the Jernigan pedal 4 on pedal 8 and have, like Chris Templeton suggested, the C to C#'s on P9. Good luck on your journey.

Dennis Montgomery · Post by **Dennis Montgomery** » 29 Jul 2018 1:16 pm

Congrats Mike on your new challenge. I'm confident that you'll soon be doing amazing things on C6 it was never designed for

Dan Robinson · Post by **Dan Robinson** » 29 Jul 2018 2:43 pm

Mike, sounds like a cool project. Even with the wheeled cart, I hope you can separate the pedal bar and legs for the trip.

You're a loyal MSA player. Didn't you have one prior to the Milleniums?

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 30 Jul 2018 1:36 am

Congrats!
John

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jul 2018 2:58 am

it';s true, my Millies, and the 2 Classics I had previously, are universals. But I've never been able to get into the B6, in part because it's too easy to release the knee lever and get back in E9 if I get confused.

I feel I need to learn on a dedicated C6 neck. I may start using the B6 on the universal once I feel comfortable with the C6 tuning. Or I may decide I prefer 2 necks, in which case I'd sell the 2 Millies and get another D-12 (One that weighs a lot less.)

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 30 Jul 2018 8:40 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:I feel I need to learn on a dedicated C6 neck.

Non-pedal 6- or 8-string is a good cheap way to do that with no heavy lifting.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Jul 2018 2:22 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Since I'm a newbie on the C6, I've decided to go with the standard 5 and 1, and leave the remaining pedal and knee lever blank, till I know more and then decide what I want.

Mike,

If you tune your first string to D (and you should), you must raise the 3rd string C to C# on a knee lever. Otherwise you're crippling yourself, in my opinion. That change is like the F lever on E9th. You gotta have it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jul 2018 5:19 pm

b0b wrote:
If you tune your first string to D (and you should), you must raise the 3rd string C to C# on a knee lever. Otherwise you're crippling yourself, in my opinion. That change is like the F lever on E9th. You gotta have it.

I'll probably do that. Right now, the guitar is still in partly disassembled. I won't get a chance to start to put it together till September.

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 31 Jul 2018 9:14 pm

Mike, I think you said you are thinking of using 11 strings
high to low D,G,E,C,A,G,E,C,A,F,C.

Since you have 12 strings maybe stick a D in the middle.
D,G,E,C,A,G,E,D,C,A,F,C. At one time Mr. Emmons had a ten like this without the high G and bottom C. Terry Crisp was still using this setup last I knew. I believe Al Vescovo had the D in the middle on his Sierra.

Food for thought....