Tuning the Whole Band to A=442 Hz

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Sep 2005 7:43 am

Bobby (and anyone else that's interested), adding 2hz to a 440hz tuning is a change of less than 1/2 of one percent, both in overall pitch and string tension.

I don't know about the string tension, but your math for pitch isn't right. Yes, 2/440 is less than .5%, that's true. But 2 Hz is not a musical pitch. Apples and oranges.

Let's look at it this way: a quartertone above A 440 Hz would sound out of tune against the A, agreed? The frequency of that quartertone note (50 cents above A 440) is 453.67 Hz. The difference from 440 is 13.67 Hz.

By your method, Donny, a quartertone is only 3.1% out of tune (13.67/440). A quartertone is half a fret, by the way.

I think that we can probably get away with tuning 8 cents flat of the band. I can hear that much on open strings, but if I'm using the bar I might correct it without noticing.

So, Donny, I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion, only with your math. Ears are the ultimate judge of what's in tune. I believe that you have good ears!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 28 September 2005 at 11:17 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Sep 2005 8:14 am

Since the cents scale is defined as 0.01 semitone, it IS a percentage. If you tune 8 cents sharp you are EIGHT PERCENT sharp. 16 is SIXTEEN PERCENT sharp.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 28 Sep 2005 8:23 am

Your no more out of tune with 440 then a Steel guitar @ J.I.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 28 Sep 2005 9:02 am

No matter how you chose to tune.If the band is going to be 2 hz sharper? You need to tune everything 2 hz sharper.I agree with Larry Bell about 2 hz being 8 percent sharp.And if you can't hear that.I'm not sure you should be playing in public...Just my opinion........bb

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 28 Sep 2005 9:22 am

I recently played a job where the whole band, steel, guitar, bass used my Peterson tuner set to the proper instrument on the tuner, and was in tune as a whole band even when the Keyboard was thrown in. The hard part was just trying them to use my tuner, but they were glad they did. Just ;my experience.

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Keep pickin', Larry

John Cook · Post by **John Cook** » 28 Sep 2005 10:39 am

Mr. Jernigan told me at a seminar that the pedal steel guitar is tuned to A=442. I said ok. jc

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Sep 2005 12:52 pm

Yeah, what does he know?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Sep 2005 1:53 pm

Since the cents scale is defined as 0.01 semitone, it IS a percentage. If you tune 8 cents sharp you are EIGHT PERCENT sharp. 16 is SIXTEEN PERCENT sharp.

Well, I'm not going to argue over our different frames of reference because the percentages (whatever they be) really don't matter! Whether its 2%, 8% or even 16%, when everything (all notes, all instruments) is raised proportionally, it will still "sound" in tune.

Try this...play a 33 1/3 RPM record at its proper speed. Now, speed it up to 45 RPM. Sure, it sounds different (higher in pitch, and faster), but doesn't everything still sound "in tune"? That's because everything was shifted proportionally. Indeed, with the pedal steel, you will soon reach a point when the pedaled notes will need to be adjusted, but my experience is that this doesn't happen with such a small (2hz) change.

Peruse the web, and you'll find out that even people with "perfect pitch" cannot discern a difference of less than 30 cents (that's 30%, right Larry?

) in a single note. It's only when notes are compared that the difference becomes obvious. P.O.V. is everything.

Of course...if you wish, you can certainly go ahead and readjust all the pedal pulls so that they suit your requirements and fit your calculations.

I have no problem with that.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Sep 2005 2:47 pm

Didn't intend for this to turn out to be a shootin' match, DH. Looking back at Bobby's original post, his questions were
1. Will he have to retune pedal stops? and
2. Will the higher pitch cause more string breakage?

Of course it will be in tune if you tune everything else up proportionally.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 28 Sep 2005 3:40 pm

What would be the advantage of tuning to 442 instead of 440?

Well, it's 2 more.

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www.tyack.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Sep 2005 4:07 pm

Good one, Dan!

Mike, the reason for tuning the band to A=442 Hz is to be in tune with the marimba.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 28 Sep 2005 4:11 pm

(bad english accent on)

y'know sometimes 440 just idn't enough, you just need a little more

(bad english accent off)

I've done this fair amount on gigs. Accordians are notoriously tuned sharp. Tuning flat is much more likely to cause you to retune pedals.

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www.tyack.com

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 29 Sep 2005 8:34 am

From Jeff Newman's chart on the jeffranmusic.com website he has the E's tuned to 442.5 and so on. I have used that chart now for about 2 years and I sound in tune with every band i play with. I think it also depends on where you place your bar based on your ear and the sounds you hear from the other band members. According to Jeff's chart the A is tuned to 439. If you tuned your A to 442 your E's would come up to 445.5. Pretty high up there but if everyone was also tuned up there I thgink it would be ok......?[This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 29 September 2005 at 09:36 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 Sep 2005 8:41 am

Everyone seems to agree that I don't need to change to lighter gauges, and that my pedals will still be in tune. That's all I wanted to know. My questions have been answered by the experts!

Moderator, please close this topic.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog