play steel like violin...? is it possible?

[Wolfgang Mrazek]

Hi!

I play in a country band with no fiddler (and no banjo! ... ;-o). Me and the guitarist make all the fills and most of the melodies etc.

Now this is maybe a strange question... Is there a way to play similar to a violin on steel? With or without electronic effect pedal? There are some electronic effect pedals for simulating dobro, organ and piano that can be used with a psg. I have not seen any for simulating violin.

Is there a way or technique to play so it sounds more like a violin, without effect pedal? Just a certain way to play that is different from "normal psg" and sounds more like fiddle? I don't play violin so I don't know much about it. I play and jam bluegrass with fiddlers and have seen they have special techniques using the bow, use two strings, let the bow quickly jump etc.

[Barry Blackwood]

Just my 2⍧, but without some kind of electronic manipulation, you will still likely sound like a steel guitar. Why the aversion to electronics to accomplish the desired goal?

[Jim Sliff]

If you do a Google search you'll find virtually hundreds of threads, posts, websites and such about the subject. It's very common.

The usual method is to use a distortion device of some kind, sometimes in combination with any/some/all of the following - a volume pedal; a compressor; and eBow.

No matter what you try it'll take a lot of experimentation, and most players do not find the right mix of gadgets and/or settings the first try.

Good luck

[Wolfgang Mrazek]

Sorry, maybe I did not explain myself correctly. I have no problems using electronic effects. But even if you use effects then you have to play similar to what is played on that instrument.

For example, I have not (yet ;0) used the Electro Harmonix B9 or C9 that simulates organ sounds. I would love to, and will probably get one. But I suppose when you use it you also must adapt to the way of playing the organ, making licks and melodies like they would be played on an organ.

I have no experience yet of doing that and I'm very thankful to share yours and your knowledge.

[Richard Sinkler]

The Electro Harmonix MEL9 has some decent string sounds. The closest I get to a fiddle is the cello patch. I used it on "Amarillo By Morning". Not an exact match, but it fools many people. I've never tried to play fast stuff, so I can't say how good that would work. I haven't heard of anything that will emulate the sound of a bouncing bow on the strings.

[Fred Treece]

Violin phrasing involves legato technique. If anyone knows how to do that on steel, I’d be interested. I’ve heard it done by all the great steel players, but it still doesn’t sound like violin legato. Much easier to do with fingers on a fretboard hammering on and pulling off.

The attack of the bow on the strings - you could try using a flatpick turned almost sideways so the edge of the pick strikes the string. That is a fairly common guitar player trick. With a clean tone and a supple wrist you can get a fairly believable violin tremolo sound.

Long sustained bowed notes can be done with a controlled volume swell, and can actually sound violin-ish with no extra effects.

If you want to learn about country fiddle phrasing, you could get a fiddle tune book. There must be one out there that has been transcribed in steel tab. Or just listen to the bluegrass greats - Buddy Spicher, Mark O’Connor, Kenny Baker, Bobby Hicks, Ricky Skaggs, Allison Krause, etc.

[Fred Treece]

I wonder how many fiddlers have Pedal Steel envy?

[john buffington]

I remember years ago Hal, Sonny and Weldon used the "Boss Tone" fuzz effect on the Opry for strings and sounded really good. Sonny Curtis of the George Jones Band also used a BossTone to get a similar effect with a single string and lots of reverb. It has been said Pete Drake used a BossTone on Jones version of "A Good Year For The Roses." He was simulating a cello and or viola. Give it a listen and see what you think. It works good on really slow songs in a pinch.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I think holding a steel under your chin the way violinists do, might be a little difficult.

[Tony Dingus]

I think holding a steel under your chin the way violinists do, might be a little difficult.

Mike that was my first thought .
I saw a video of Bobbe Seymour at a steel convention and was making his steel sound like a fiddle playing fills behind a singer. You have to think fiddle/violin. He used a fuzz tone of some kind.

Tony

[b0b]

The Electro Harmonix MEL9 has some decent string sounds. The closest I get to a fiddle is the cello patch. I used it on "Amarillo By Morning". Not an exact match, but it fools many people. I've never tried to play fast stuff, so I can't say how good that would work. I haven't heard of anything that will emulate the sound of a bouncing bow on the strings.

I was going to say the same thing. The Mel9's Cello setting is actually one of the cleanest tones it makes. The Strings setting is also pretty good for a violin section effect. There's nothing in the Mel9 that would work for uptempo fiddling, though.

[Richard Sinkler]

The Electro Harmonix MEL9 has some decent string sounds. The closest I get to a fiddle is the cello patch. I used it on "Amarillo By Morning". Not an exact match, but it fools many people. I've never tried to play fast stuff, so I can't say how good that would work. I haven't heard of anything that will emulate the sound of a bouncing bow on the strings.

I was going to say the same thing. The Mel9's Cello setting is actually one of the cleanest tones it makes. The Strings setting is also pretty good for a violin section effect. There's nothing in the Mel9 that would work for uptempo fiddling, though.

I also use the strings patch. Pretty good.

Back in the 70's, I also used a Bosstone to do strings live, and also did some studio work with it. I have a 45 (remember those?) That I added a cello part. The MEL9 is far superior.

[Jim Sliff]

Agreed that none of them work for fast string...or whatever instrument...sounds.


A guitar played fast with a fuzz sounds like a guitar with a fuzz effect; played at slow to medium speeds with compression and/or volume swells you can get a violin or cello-like effect, but only if you also play with a string player type "feel". You get that by listening to string players and adapting your equipment to their technique, Nothing magic or automatic - it takes practice.

The keyboard emulators like the C9 and Mel9 have great sounds right out of the box, but you won't sound anything close to an organ, Mellotron or piano player unless you play inversions that are correct for the specific instrument AND with attack that also matches the instrument.

It really helps to already know how to play keyboards or whatever, and in the case of the Mel9 some Mellotron playing experience is invaluable.

Most players I hear use these devices sound awful, because they are simply "using an effects pedal" - NOT trying to truly emulate an instrument.

[b0b]

But the Mellotron itself is an emulator, Jim. It was designed to give orchestral sounds to pop bands. Nobody wants to sound like a Mellotron player. The whole idea was to emulate by using tape loop recordings of the actual instruments.

But I hear what you're saying. Don't play pedal steel licks and expect an effect box to make it sound like a violin or keyboard. It won't sound like a different instrument unless you phrase in a way that's typical of that instrument.

And that's part what OP Wolfgang was asking for: technique advice for simulating violin/fiddle on pedal steel. One thing I can offer: don't play 3 note chords unless you're doing a whole string section. A single violinist doesn't typically play 3 note chords.

It wouldn't hurt to pick up a Mel Bay book of folk fiddle tunes and work your way through it. They aren't hard if you know the basics of reading music. It's good exercise and it's fun too.

[Gary Watkins]

Bobbe Seymour could do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyU4EuXXY1Q

It really starts at about 4 minutes, but watch it all.

[Lyle Dent]

Wolfgang, this is the best way to do it!

[john widgren]

Gary Morse used to play steel with a violin bow a bit.

Hi Gary!

JW

[George Kimery]

When I was using a Boss Tone, I used unison strings usually 5 and 2 or 1 and 4. Also, a slight bar slant to get the two notes slightly out of pitch with each other, then just toggle picked back and forth between the two strings. I'm talking vio!in or strings sound here. I never did get what I would call a good o!d classic country fiddle sound.

Bob is right. Just because you can get a fiddle sound doesn't mean you can play fiddle licks. I had a Steel Rider midi rig at one time paired with a Roland rack mount piano synthesizer. I could play exact piano sound because it was piano samples. I gave it up as a bad idea because the physical layout of piano keys and steel guitar strings were completely different. I never could play piano licks.

Same thing with a dobro simulator. Even though I had a dobro sound, I didn't have a dobro tuning, so I could never get convincing dobro runs. I thought about just stringing up The back neck to a dobro tuning. This is not a bad idea if you play ,E9th and dobro but not C6th.

For novelty and emulation of other instruments, there are ways to do it, but my experience is that it is just not worth the effort. The end result will be less than satisfactory. The dobro stomp pedals may be the exception and worth while.

[Richard Sinkler]

Jeff Newman gave a seminar out here when he taught the Bosstone string effect. He used strings 1 and 4 with the C pedal. Slant bar so the 2 unisons were out of tune. You can vary the amount of speed the beats giving some variance in bowing speed by slant the bar more or less. He also taught that the best sound also included cranking the reverb WAY up, and the treble WAY down. Alternate picking one string then the other.

The cello used string 4, 5, and 10. I don't remember if you had to slant to make it work. You would pick 4,5,10 in that order over and over. Reverb and highs the same as fiddles. These techniques work more for string sections on slow songs. You're not going to play Orange Blossom Special by doing this.

I've only had one other fuzz box ( not overdrive) that sounded good. I decided to take up keyboards to get more realistic sounds.

[Rich Peterson]

Skip the fuzz except for string section sounds. For fiddle, pedal or slide 2 notes up to the melody. Listen to some cajun fiddling and match the phrasing. Another technique is to bar a lower string while also playing a higher string open.

[Henry Matthews]

Wolfgang, this is the best way to do it!

Hey Lyle, was trying to find a like button but guess I stay on Facebook to much, lol, great pic.

[Chris Walke]

Why not just let the pedal steel sound like a pedal steel, even if you're playing the fiddle part?

[Barry Blackwood]

You have to think fiddle/violin.

Most importantly, you have to start with this..

[Lyle Dent]

Henry, thanks. Some songs just have to have both steel and fiddle. Cherokee Fiddle just wouldn't sound the same.

[Mitch Ellis]

No matter what effects or techniques were used, I have never heard, at least to my ears, one instrument successfully duplicate the sound of another.

Mitch