First Dobro

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 26 Mar 2018 4:54 am

I'm a banjo player and play some pedal steel.

I would like to have a Dobro to play around with. I know nothing about them. I would like to be able to plug it into my Fishman amp I use for my banjo. I'm looking at two lower cost guitars. I'm leaning towards the Epiphone. I played one in a store and it seemed solid.

Anyone have any tips or advice or suggestions?

Thanks

Here is the two I'm looking at:

Epiphone Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... tage-brown

Gretsch G9230 Bobtail Square-neck Mahogany Body Resonator
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ingerboard

Thanks![/img]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Mar 2018 5:44 am

is around $500 your budget Ed? Or can you go higher.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 26 Mar 2018 5:53 am

I wanted to stay under $1000. I just did a Sweetwater search on square necks with electronics and came up with these 2. But I know nothing about Dobros.

Thanks

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Mar 2018 6:06 am

If you budget is up to $1,000 I'd suggest looking at the some of the Beard setup Goldtone dobros.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 26 Mar 2018 6:54 am

Thanks, I forgot about Gold Tone. They do decent lower cost banjos.

The Gold also reminds me of Gold Star. They did some killer Gibson Mastertone banjo copies in the 70s. I wonder if Saga does Dobros.

Thanks again.

PS - It looks like Saga does Regal resonators. None of them have pickups.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Mar 2018 7:20 am

All Gold Tone guitars are excellent bang for the buck.

Erv

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 26 Mar 2018 7:26 am

The Gretsch comes stock with a Fishman Nashville pickup, which makes it quite a bargain.

Joe Breeden · Post by **Joe Breeden** » 26 Mar 2018 7:58 am

Ed, a resonator just listed in or forum's for sale section.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 26 Mar 2018 10:42 am

Yes, there's a few of them in the classifieds, but at a budget greater than what Ed wants to spend.

That custom Murray appears to be a nice axe in a large body model, and I have the Wechter/Scheerhorn with electronics installed.

John Swain had a reso listed earlier too.

[Art has a Beard GT with electronics listed also, didn't mean to slight him.]

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 26 Mar 2018 10:55 am

GRETSCH !!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lZiGr7fpk

Brad Davis · Post by **Brad Davis** » 26 Mar 2018 11:10 am

Saga does dobros, just not particularly well (Regal brand). The Black Lightning I think is still top of the line for them.

For $1000 just about the best would be a Gold Tone PBS-D, but adding the pickup would cost a bit more. Might look for something used.

Have heard good things about the Bobtail. The Epiphone might be okay also. Either one would take a good setup job.

It's outside of your budget but the new Beard Deco-Phonic models 27 and 37 look like an amazing value for a true Beard American made guitar, $1600 and $1800 base prices respectively I think.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 26 Mar 2018 11:56 am

In the original post Ed posted links to an Epiphone Dobro and a Gretsch Bobtail.

And he commented that he needs a pickup to play plugged in.

Unless something changed recently, the Epi comes equipped with the old Fishman "donut" pickup which attaches to the tension screw underneath the cone inside the guitar. In my experience this is a terrible pickup and should be avoided. I used one for years and it was a constant battle to overcome feedback and sound "bleeding" from other instruments on stage to try achieve something resembling good plugged in tone.

The Gretsch Bobtail has the Fishman Nashville piezo pickup installed - a 1000% improvement.

The Gretsch is a decent starter dobro, and the version with no pickup goes for about $360. There were some problems in the first couple years - like the tailpiece breaking at random - but hopefully they've gotten that straightened out. It's a light guitar, which is nice, but some of the parts are cheesy. It plays a little "soft" - hard to describe.

But it sounds pretty good plugged in. We've had a lot of discussions in this area, here is some of what I wrote in a thread a couple years ago, the member I was addressing owned at the time a Regal RD-40:

There are plenty of threads about amplifying dobros here if you choose different ways to search, but you might also check out www.Resohangout.com, even more topics on the subject there. It's free to join.

Unless you are "married" to that Regal, and you need to stay on a tight budget, if it were me I would purchase a Gretsch with the Fishman Nashville pickup already installed which can be had - remarkably - for about $500 - only about $140 U.S. more than the same Gretsch guitar that is acoustic only. The remarkable part being that to purchase the Nashville pickup on its own, and it's yet to be installed - they go for about $210. The optimum sound is achieved with the Jerry Douglas Aura pedal which is over $300.

Does this mean that I'm recommending you stop @ $500 and go with the Gretsch? Not really - other better options have been recommended here. I just wanted to convey the value of the Fishman Nashville p'up installed in the Bobtail, and that you should steer clear of the Epiphone if it indeed still comes with the Fishman "donut" pickup.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 26 Mar 2018 1:16 pm

Thanks a lot guys!

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 26 Mar 2018 2:23 pm

Another vote for the Beard Goldtone!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 26 Mar 2018 8:51 pm

Another Beard/Goldtone vote, and just have a pickup added - IMO anythingBUT a Fishman. Or if a Fishman pickup is used get a Baggs Venue preamp to kill the harsh top end. That would kill your budget, though.

A used Wechter-Sheerhorn would be a great choice but be a couple hundred above your number.

IMO it's a bit hard to find a good sounding instrument at the $500 level - and since nearly all resonators except those made by small shops also ned to be set up properly that's another cost. Every cheap resonator I have played has ben difficult to work with - the nuts are usually cut unevenly requiring heavy bar pressure to avoid buzzes, and the cones are never tensioned correctly (most are FAR too tight). Nearly all except the Beard setup Goldtones have cheap stamped cones, which don't well acoustically and seriously affect how all pickups operate.

However - if you want to "plug in" you have a bit of a pickle anyway budget-wise. resonator guitars need very different preamp settings than banjo (I've played both plugged-in for decades), and getting a good sound with both through a Fishman amp is very tough without an additional preamp between resonator and amp.

Passive resonator pickup systems rarely sound good, with very "metallic" sound/resonance (not in a desirable way) - but the wrong preamp can make it worse.

"Google" the subject - there are plenty of reviews of instruments, pickups and preamps online. Also check out the Reso Hangout website, where you'll find far more "Dobro" players. No offense to the players here, but a large number of "Dobro" players here have it as a second....or third...instrument. I've found the "Hangout" to have a greater number of "Dobro-focused" players. Use both sites.

But don't be in a hurry and do your research. there are really bad sounding instruments and pickups out there....and very good ones.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 27 Mar 2018 6:37 am

Thanks guys!

I already have Baggs Para DI and a Fishman Platinum Stage EQ/DI. I would need just need a pickup installed. I've been playing through a Fishman 180 watts LoudBox. The Fishman is convenient. I used to play through a rack mixer and a pair of EV powered speakers. The EV and rack rig sounded great but its too much stuff to mess with anymore.

I used the Baggs Venue a couple of years ago when this one sound contractor was doing some of our gigs where I played banjo. The sound guy preferred the Venue over the Para DI I was using at the time and would provide it to use. I liked the EQ and tuner options on the Venue.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 27 Mar 2018 7:14 am

Jim Sliff wrote:Another Beard/Goldtone vote, and just have a pickup added - IMO anythingBUT a Fishman. Or if a Fishman pickup is used get a Baggs Venue preamp to kill the harsh top end. That would kill your budget, though.

I'm confused Jim - are you referring specifically to the Fishman "donut" pickup? Or are you including the Fishman Nashville pickup in this as well? Even though they are from the same company, a comparison between the two is the epitome of the expression "apples and oranges."

And once again, I'm not trying to sell anyone on going for a Gretsch Bobtail since I believe better options have been mentioned in this thread but for the sake of accuracy, they do in fact come with a fairly decent spun - not stamped - cone. From the Gretsch site:

The vital feature of all GretschÂ® resonator guitars is the Grestch Ampli-Sonicâ„¢ diaphragm (resonator cone), which is hand-spun in Eastern Europe from nearly 99 percent pure aluminium, yielding an impressive quality and volume of tone.

I'm not a fan of Regals myself, but if you check out the Saga Music site, even the lowest priced models come with some type of spun cone. Inexpensive Chinese spun cones - wouldn't want one in any of my guitars, but spun cones nonetheless.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 27 Mar 2018 11:21 am

A new one is going to hit the market at some point in the near future, and as a far as the higher end imports go since Gold Tone/Beard has pretty much owned that segment since the demise of Wechter/Scheerhorn, check out in the link below Phil Leadbetter playing his new signature model Recording King. I think this guitar will give Gold Tone a serious run for its money.

Not finalized yet, but I've heard a street price of around $1000:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g8vJi4t8Ek

Brad Davis · Post by **Brad Davis** » 27 Mar 2018 1:05 pm

RK has done resonators before, mostly biscuits but some spiders. They usually seemed to be re-badged Johnsons I think, so I never paid them much attention. This Leadbetter model might be the real deal but no info on their site yet.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 27 Mar 2018 2:18 pm

I know that Phil has put a lot of time and attention into this guitar with Greg Rich and Recording King and as he mentioned in the video it is an open body, soundpost design which is more in line with what players want these days.

And I'm sure he wants it done right - like Jerry Douglas before him, Phil had no shortage of problems and complaints with some of the guitars that were shipped as his signature Dobro models from Gibson - so he knows the drill.

Joe Burke · Post by **Joe Burke** » 28 Mar 2018 7:45 pm

I’ve got the Gretsch. Sounds great. And the pick up works well. I just upgraded to a Beard cone, and it now sounds even better! I think it’s the best bang for your buck.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 29 Mar 2018 12:29 pm

Not too far from here is a place called the Bluegrass Shack. I know them because they sell Stelling and Nechville banjos. Chris at the Bluegrass Shack is following up with Gold Tone on the price of a Beard signature .... But he really likes the lower cost Recording Kings she sells for around $550.

RK has done some decent cheap Asian banjos. I was just a little surprised with Chris's RK recommendation considering the level of instruments she often specializes in.

Bob Russell · Post by **Bob Russell** » 29 Mar 2018 5:53 pm

Another thumbs-up for the Gretsch. I've had mine about a year and have been enjoying it very much. As others have pointed out, the built-in Fishman Nashville pickup makes it quite a bargain. A pretty decent starter instrument and one you don't have to worry about schlepping to gigs.

Ed Boyd · Post by **Ed Boyd** » 30 Mar 2018 12:10 pm

Is there anything special I need to know when buying a Dobro strap?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 2 Apr 2018 8:51 pm

And once again, I'm not trying to sell anyone on going for a Gretsch Bobtail since I believe better options have been mentioned in this thread but for the sake of accuracy, they do in fact come with a fairly decent spun - not stamped - cone. From the Gretsch site:

The eastern European spun cone is commonly installed in "low/mid" priced (<$1000 street) resonators and quite a few cheaper ones. I've had several and tried them in various instruments. IMO they are very weak sounding when compared to Beard, Scheerhorn or Quarterman cones, and I've installed them in everything from cheap Regals to my custom Appalachian to a 1936 dobro Model 37 for comparison purposes.

The Gretsch advertising language is just that - "advertising" and meaningless. It takes putting them AND other cones into use in the same instruments... with the necessary setup work...to really get a clear idea of how they compare.

This means swapping them between instruments and either having someone on hand that can do a proper setup or doing it yourself. Virtually all "off the shelf" commodity instruments significantly improve with a good setup, and most make another jump with a cone upgrade.

Also, some things to keep in mind about YouTube videos - they are recorded with a huge range of microphones, software/processing, and "engineer" skill (or lack thereof). A specific player's attach and approach may also significantly affect the sound.

And the "great equalizer" is the speaker system (or earbuds/headphones) you use to listen. Less expensive speakers (or earbuds) tend to make well-recorded instruments of vastly different quality sound very similar, and few players use anything approaching studio monitor quality at home.

I've found that resonators need to be played & compared in person to get a decent idea of tonal differences. But there's another wildcard - inexperienced players that haven't fine-tuned their attack, learned right-hand "tone control" or developed good "resonator bar control" (different from steel bar control) tend to hear most instruments, regardless of quality, as very similar. Especially if they are not being played in the same place on the same day.

As far as the Fishman pickups I'm aware fo the differences, just as I am many differences between other manufacturers' various pickups made for specific instrument types. IMO all Fishman resonator pickups have a harsh (or "overly bright" ) top end when compared to most other resonator--specific pickups. I'm not the only one that has made that observation, but like anything else it's a matter of perception. Some players like the additional "bite", (or what I call a more "vintage-y" sound).

As far as straps go, cheap ones can make the instrument feel very unstable - and playing with a strap when standing take a huge amount of practice. Some players never really get comfortable with it, especially when it comes to playing fast hammer-ons and pulloffs. I tried to get away with cheaper straps for years, but I finally found that most common straps in the $30-60 range just don't work very well.

First, make sure you buy a strap that's made specifically for squareneck resonators. Guitar straps rarely are long enough or work very well. Make sure the "body" end is made of soft enough material to comfortably loop it through your right arm for stability. Then make sure you attach the headstock end far enough away from the nut that you can play properly at the first fret.

It sometimes helps to have a swivel of some sort between shoulder and headstock or shoulder and body - but not both - although I use Long Hollow Leather padded straps with no swivel. They work fine & are priced very reasonably.