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Post new topic Amp Sims - Positive Grid, Amplitude, Etc
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Author Topic:  Amp Sims - Positive Grid, Amplitude, Etc
Douglas Schuch


From:
St John, US Virgin Islands
Post Posted 6 Mar 2018 6:45 am     Reply with quote

This topic is a spin-off from Bill Terry's reply to Bret Lanier's post "What type of amp mics are you using?"

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=328367

Bill says he no longer mic'ing amps, but using amp simulator software, specifically Bias Amp from Positive Grid. I thought this might be worth further discussion. So who is using amp simulation software when recording? Or, maybe even using it for direct out to a soundboard/PA system? Which ones have you tried, and which did you like?

One problem I have when watching youtube videos demo'ing these is guitar players almost never play a good, clean tone. Most demos have so many effects piled on top of the amp that it is impossible to figure out what the basic tone is like.

I am hoping Tommy D will chime in - how are you using it? Most/All steel recording these days?

I know a few years ago too much digital "stuff" happening caused latency issues - is that still an issue?

Inquiring minds want to know!
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 6 Mar 2018 7:52 pm     Reply with quote

Studio One has a zero latency feature and I’m pretty sure that Logic does too.
I’ve noticed that using the Studio One zero latency feature really makes my computer’s processor work really hard though (late 2012 Mac Mini with Focusrite Saffire interface).
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Tim Kowalski


From:
Illinois, USA
Post Posted 9 Mar 2018 7:04 am     Reply with quote

I have used Guitar Rig, Re-Valver and Boogex (Free)
They all can deliver nice tone. Most of the presets are crap, but there are some very nice clean "tubey" sounding ones. I find something close to what I need and adjust it to my liking.
Rick - You need to use the MixControl feature. It routes your input directly to your monitor and headphone outputs. I have a Scarlett interface, but should work the same for Saffire.
Go here for instructions.
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206850399-Saffire-and-Scarlett-MixControl-tutorial

Your computer will thank you!
Tim
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Tim Kowalski


From:
Illinois, USA
Post Posted 9 Mar 2018 7:09 am     Reply with quote

Look in the ROUTING section of the instructions for zero latency monitoring.
Smile
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Bill Terry


From:
Bastrop, TX
Post Posted 9 Mar 2018 11:25 am     Reply with quote

I've been working on a record for a guy at Harter Studios in San Antonio. We've done several sessions, and I've gotten to know Jon, the engineer, pretty well. From the very first session I asked to run parallel signals; one to my amp which is mic'd, and another through a clean preamp directly to a second track. That second track is dry steel guitar, no effects. Jon was happy to oblige, it's a trivial request for a pro studio guy.

During mixing, I've found it very useful to be able to go back to the dry track and use an amp sim, instead of the actual track off the amp. On some songs the amp sound just wasn't quite laying in the track the way we wanted, and the amp sim gave us the option to do something totally different.

It's also a life saver for fixing clams after the fact. I can 'patch' that dry track in my home studio, no worry about trying to match the live amp sound. I've done that more times than I care to admit on this project.

All that said, I still like the way the amp sounds, but the second dry track is pretty much 'free' the way we're recording, so why not?

BTW, Jon is a pro-tools master, so if he decides to comp a track from a couple of takes, he groups the amp and dry tracks and both get the same slice/dice, i.e. they're still identical.
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Chris Tarrow


From:
Maplewood, NJ
Post Posted 9 Mar 2018 12:30 pm     Reply with quote

Try the demo on this:

https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear

better clean sounds than most of the ones I've tried.

better with a Sarno Black Box in front of it.

much better with the UAD Ocean Way plugin.
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Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 9 Mar 2018 1:33 pm     Reply with quote

I've got several amp modelers that come with Cakewalk Sonar, including Guitar Rig 5 and TH3 but neither turned me on for steel. However, I have used a Fender amp model in POD Farm 3 that did "OK".

When I record "direct" I either use a preamp program in my POD X3 or I use a Sans Amp Para Driver DI that seems to work with steel.
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 10 Mar 2018 9:10 am     Reply with quote

Tim Kowalski wrote:
I have used Guitar Rig, Re-Valver and Boogex (Free)
They all can deliver nice tone. Most of the presets are crap, but there are some very nice clean "tubey" sounding ones. I find something close to what I need and adjust it to my liking.
Rick - You need to use the MixControl feature. It routes your input directly to your monitor and headphone outputs. I have a Scarlett interface, but should work the same for Saffire.
Go here for instructions.
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206850399-Saffire-and-Scarlett-MixControl-tutorial

Your computer will thank you!
Tim


I’ve been using MixControl for live tracks.
But does the MixControl work with plugins too??
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Tim Kowalski


From:
Illinois, USA
Post Posted 11 Mar 2018 6:30 am     Reply with quote

If you are asking if you would hear the effects of plugins on the channel as you are recording the track, that would be no. You will hear the dry signal as it enters the interface without passing through your DAW.

You may find that exsisting tracks need to be pulled down when recording new ones, since the zero latency routing of the channel to monitor/phones is a bit low and can't be adjusted.
You will also need to turn off the record monitoring on the track that you are recording or you will hear the delayed signal along with the direct.

Once it is recorded, it will play back through any plugins in the track.

I hope this makes sense and helps answer your question.
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 11 Mar 2018 4:46 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks,Tim.
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Douglas Schuch


From:
St John, US Virgin Islands
Post Posted 12 Mar 2018 1:55 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info, folks! I notice no one mentioned the free version of Amplitube - anyone tried that one?

Another question: I have a Zoom R16 I can record with. Would it work to record the guitar straight into the R16 (or a line out from an amp), then use the amp syms afterwards?
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 12 Mar 2018 5:24 pm     Reply with quote

Douglas Schuch wrote:


Another question: I have a Zoom R16 I can record with. Would it work to record the guitar straight into the R16 (or a line out from an amp), then use the amp syms afterwards?


Yes.
You can record a direct guitar signal with the Zoom R16, then transfer to your DAW and add an amp modelling software like Bias.
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Michael Butler


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 30 Apr 2018 6:42 pm     Reply with quote

i have the bias amp app as well as their bias fx app. i've found, as others have said, that they seem to lean toward dirtier tones. i just clean them up and they work fine. note that i use the bias stuff as well as the amp sims in logic, BUT, usually only for rhythm guitar parts. i still love to use my tube amps for the lead guitar parts.

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