Sho Bud

Russell Adkins · Post by **Russell Adkins** » 21 Dec 2017 6:58 pm

Which Bud would be considered the best out of the whole bunch of them , best looking , best playing best all the way around and its availability as of now? and what would be a decent price for such a guitar? what about the most versitel?

Dana Blodgett · Post by **Dana Blodgett** » 21 Dec 2017 9:10 pm

For me, it would have to be an early Pro 11( '72 or '73)D-10 with the two hole pullers with barrels, wide pedals gumby headstock...or an early LDG with the same set up.
With the "round front" cabinet! Just my opinion.
Price...depends on condition, location and what you can negotiate for an acceptable price.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Dec 2017 10:02 pm

Yes just like Dana said: the "PRO~II" first series...as they have the best sounding/playing fingers Sho~bud ever made...and those are the Single/Single....Barrel Tuning fingers. The Pro II is exactly like the Professional in every way except the Professional pulls the barrels with "Racks" and the Pro II pulls with Two hole pullers on Crossbars.
Here is the latest one that I'm restoring right now(it's only halfway done)...and probably one of the last of this series built in July, 1974

Then they started the nylon tuning system...and then parts started changing to the "The Pro~II Custom"...and could NEVER sound close to as good as the first Pro II's. I have restored over 100 Sho~bud's from EVERY era(including Lloyd Green's Lightening Bolt Fingertip he recorded on countless #1 songs through the 60's) to the latest model Sho~bud SuperPro.
But this "PRO~II" is my all time favorite for playing perfection..and you can raise and lower a string as many times you want(versatile) and Sound.
So if you are looking for a good price on a GREAT Sho~bud....look somewhere else for something else...there's plenty of that...
But if you are looking for THE best sounding/playing Sho~bud ever made; those to me are "Priceless"(meaning whatever it cost; it's worth every penny).
Ricky

Eric Dahlhoff · Post by **Eric Dahlhoff** » 21 Dec 2017 11:20 pm

Here's a Sho~Bud Professional, with barrels/2-hole pullers. Ser #3073. I guess it was made just before they renamed them "Pro-II"?
Yes - it's been refinished. (It was a mess when I got it)

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 22 Dec 2017 12:06 am

Eric, that might be the prettiest guitar I’ve ever seen. It’s got a “Bob Muller-ish” vibe, and that’s a good thing!

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 22 Dec 2017 6:28 am

On Ricky's advice, I watched for a good deal on a Pro II round-front. I eventually bought this one, in need of some TLC:

Here is what it looks like now. I need to get it to Ricky sometime in the next year and have him tweak it out and add some knee levers:

In addition to the obviously rough finish, the guitar had shrunk enough that the front and rear aprons had broken the joints to the top at each end - Sho-Buds have that screw through the fronts and backs of each endplate - so they held the aprons out while the top shrank inward. I fixed it with epoxy resin - somewhere on the forum here I detailed that procedure as I had been told it could not be repaired.

I think the two-tone/round-front Sho-Buds are about the prettiest pedal steels going. They sound great, even when no one is playing them! haha!

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 22 Dec 2017 7:11 am

I'd like to put those pullers on my mint '74 professional--, can they mount on the axle rods and rack hardware?

Eric Dahlhoff · Post by **Eric Dahlhoff** » 22 Dec 2017 9:14 am

Ken - thanks! Come visit & play it.

Douglas - your's is a beauty! What's the ser #? Do you know the year? The two-tone finish is hard to do, but I it's worth it.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 22 Dec 2017 10:45 am

Eric, the serial number is 3523, which according to my info means it was built in June, 1973. Yours is pretty stunning also. There was a green and natural one that sold on the forum twice about 4 years ago I lusted after. But turquoise is probably my favorite color if you can get it right - and it looks like you did. I would have probably reversed the colors, but then, yours stands out for not doing so - all two-tones I can remember had the top natural, and color on the aprons and neck.

Thanks for the compliment!

Doug

Bob Bestor · Post by **Bob Bestor** » 22 Dec 2017 11:17 am

Someday baby.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 22 Dec 2017 1:37 pm

Hey Eric; that Professional was born February 1973; very nice finish bro.
Jerry>

can they mount on the axle rods and rack hardware?

Answer is NO....those are welded vertical brackets that hold the horizontal braces on...and so you can't mount two hole pullers on there. Best bet is to buy crossbarsand pullers from Michael at www.psgparts.com
Ricky

Edward Rhea · Post by **Edward Rhea** » 22 Dec 2017 3:02 pm

My ‘72 Professional...

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 22 Dec 2017 4:19 pm

My ideal would be a round front S10 with the 2 and 1 changer, 2 hole pullers, AND the early style coil tap pickup.. I have seen a few in this configuration, but not many.. I don't think the 2/1 changer was around long, as they went to the Super pro setup...
As far as pure tone in a Bud s10 , the 6139 round front, with tone, volume, and coil switch on the deck are hard to beat.. Only problem with that was they were mostly made with a Rack and barrel set up, and some of those are dodgy to keep in tune, at least for me.. The sound was great as was the playability, but I couldn't keep most of the ones I had in tune the way I wanted... I might just have been spoiled by MSA guitars because they NEVER went out of tune, and I judged the R&B system too harshly... bob

Russell Adkins · Post by **Russell Adkins** » 22 Dec 2017 4:19 pm

Are the pro 2 and professional models hard to find? Where can I find one for sale? They are sure pretty . I had a super pro which was pure junk still mad about that one.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 22 Dec 2017 4:43 pm

Russell, I see more Professionals with the rack systems than the Pro II's with the two-hole pullers, but they are around, and as Ricky says, they former can be converted.

Edit: the Professionals I think typically had 1 knee lever, and the Pro II round-fronts maybe 2. So, if you want a guitar that is closer to more normal modern standards you will have to add gear yourself, or sent it to Ricky of Jackson Guitars or someone else who can add levers. I seem to remember one Pro II that had 9 pedals fitted for a pro player, but other than that I've only seen them with 8.

Bob - I have not seen any S-10's - or even D-10's - with round-fronts and the two-up/one down changer, but no doubt they exist as it seems nearly every permutation of Sho-Bud possible came out of the factory at some point. The two-up/one down used the plastic tuning nuts, and maybe a barrel or two (my 12-string had barrels along with the plastic tuning nuts).

There is just something very cool and vintage about the round-fronts. And the two-tones definitely sound better!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 22 Dec 2017 5:52 pm

Douglas Schuch wrote:Russell, I see more Professionals with the rack systems than the Pro II's with the two-hole pullers, but they are around, and as Ricky says, they former can be converted.

Edit: the Professionals I think typically had 1 knee lever, and the Pro II round-fronts maybe 2. So, if you want a guitar that is closer to more normal modern standards you will have to add gear yourself, or sent it to Ricky of Jackson Guitars or someone else who can add levers. I seem to remember one Pro II that had 9 pedals fitted for a pro player, but other than that I've only seen them with 8.

Bob - I have not seen any S-10's - or even D-10's - with round-fronts and the two-up/one down changer, but no doubt they exist as it seems nearly every permutation of Sho-Bud possible came out of the factory at some point. The two-up/one down used the plastic tuning nuts, and maybe a barrel or two (my 12-string had barrels along with the plastic tuning nuts).

There is just something very cool and vintage about the round-fronts. And the two-tones definitely sound better!

I think there was one sold here less than a month or so ago... I have not seen many.. most round fronts used the rack and barrel.. ricky would know a lot more about it than me, but I have seen a few guitars with the 2/1 changer over the years, a few round fronts, and a few square fronts.. I don't know the cutoff years or models , but I am pretty sure it was a transitional thing... bob

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 22 Dec 2017 6:28 pm

Yes Bob C. The round front S-10 and D-10 with double raise/single lower; was the very first transition to "nylon tuning" system; so that means you still hooked the string on a pin on the finger top...so that means it was still the aluminum great sounding finger tops(also that means the Pro II "Custom" came out and so round front bodies went away). They were still crossbar and two hole pullers....> racks went away when first series "PRO~II" came out.
Douglas; the standard Professional off the floor came with 8 pedals and two knee levers. The PRO~II came off the floor with 8 pedals and 4 knee levers. But Sho~bud was truly a "Custom" shop and would put on or not whatever someone would order for theirself....; so "OFF THE FLOOR" means what ShoBud would build to sell someone that wants what is built..ha.
IS THERE ANYMORE AOUND????
Yes; I will have one for sale(1974 PRO~II) when I finish it first part of January.....so look out...oh and it won't be cheap; as it will be spotless and move better than any; and play and sound perfect...or I ain't selling it...ha...
Ricky

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 22 Dec 2017 11:16 pm

Bob Carlucci wrote:My ideal would be a round front S10 with the 2 and 1 changer, 2 hole pullers, AND the early style coil tap pickup.. I have seen a few in this configuration, but not many.. I don't think the 2/1 changer was around long, as they went to the Super pro setup...

There was the 2/2 changer in between, still with two-hole pullers, no barrels, pull rods fixed in the brass swivels. My '76 Pro III has this setup, with slot fingers as opposed to pins. Apparently the slot fingers are the first of the much-maligned "pot metal" parts. I know the generally accepted wisdom is that these finger tops don't sound as good as the aluminum ones with pins, but--what can I say? that Pro III sounds GREAT to me. I don't gig it because a) it's very heavy and b) it doesn't even have what I feel I "need" from a four-lever setup, but the tone and sustain are killer. Not at all inferior to my '74 round-front, two-hole-pullers-with-barrels, aluminum finger tops with pins LDG, IMHO.

In fact, I have a '78 Super Pro that was my only steel for 25 years, and even since I have acquired the two guitars mentioned above, it still sounds great to me as well, and sustains at least as well, maybe better. (I have had all the knee lever brackets and the levers themselves replaced with aluminum ones, but the finger tops are still stock. Do the lever parts influence tone or sustain? What do you believe?) I think the individual guitar, rather than any particular specifications, is the bottom line. If you, as a policy, bypass any Sho-Bud that isn't '73-'74 round-front, you could be passing up a very fine guitar.

I will say that, as far as looks, nothing looks as great as a round-front Sho-Bud!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 23 Dec 2017 3:58 pm

Brint.. yes I had a ProIII with that set up as well, 2/2 with 2 hole pullers. Many years ago... Mine had the small pedals, but had old style curved knee levers... It was a super nice system, that played VERY soft and smooth.. tuning stability on mine was not great, but was almost acceptable,,, it didn't like stage lights or temperature changes... It had nice sustain, and sounded nice, but was not that "classic" Bud sound. I thought the fingers were pot metal, but I could be wrong on that.. Forgot about that system, and have only seen it on a Pro III.. Not sure if that system ever made it on to any S10 guitars.. Ricky might know... bob

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 23 Dec 2017 7:31 pm

Yes any Sho~bud finger top with groove you hook the string in; is POT METAL....Only the great sounding aluminum fingers had a pin you hook string on.
As for the 2/2 changer; just like everything sho~bud; was short lived...ha...who knows what guitars it "NORMALLY" went in..ha....
Also; the Pro III all Pro III's will sound differently than any NON~metal neck Sho~bud; as the Pro III had a different finger mounting bracket system that mounted straight down to the body; so the metal neck wrapped around it and didn't touch any of the finger system....as the Wood neck Sho~bud's had a metal(casted) tail piece the fingers mounted into and that tail piece was screwed into the body....so you can see those totally differ when you strike the string; what and where and how is it mounted; on it's vibration.
Ricky

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 24 Dec 2017 1:03 pm

My ProII was a really nice guitar, and had a sweet sound, and very good sustain, but it simply had a more "generic" pedal steel sound, not at all like a classic Bud... bob

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 24 Dec 2017 1:12 pm

Don't know which model had the wide pedals but never can get used to them. They stick or bind on your shoe soul and seems I never came off pedals completely which made it out of tune. I really like the narrow pedals much better. My Pro II had narrow pedals and metal necks. Was an awesome guitar, wish I would have kept it.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 24 Dec 2017 1:48 pm

Ricky,

i have a set of 4 hole pullers that James made for me just before he passed. They're neat!
JB

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