Lloyd Green C Pedal

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 19 Jul 2017 1:37 pm

Watching the footage of Lloyd playing at the Station Inn last week, I noticed he makes pretty extensive use of his C pedal. This itself isn't surprising, given his signature licks with the BC pedal combo we all try and copy

What was surprising to me, though, was that I was usually hearing some kind of sweet, majory inversion. I know that the B and C pedals 2 frets up give you the third and fifth notes the key on strings 4 and 3, and you can do some cool unison stuff with strings 4 and 1, but it didn't seem like that was what I was hearing, and he didn't appear to be slanting the bar in those moments. Is there another obvious pocket in there that I'm missing?

Tim Russell · Post by **Tim Russell** » 19 Jul 2017 1:46 pm

Can you post a clip/video of a song that he utilized these moves in?

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jul 2017 3:09 pm

Yes there are many many more uses of the B and C pedals. Ok I was at Lloyd's house playing his LDG one time..and he said: "Ok Ricky; play all the solo moves of together again, without using strings 3 and 5 at all"....I was like; ok no prob. Well it was a HUGE prob..ha. until he sat down and played it flawlessly on just strings 4 and 6, using the B and C pedals. That right there opened up a whole new E9 pedal steel guitar to me, that I thought never existed.
Ok; Get to work.
Ricky

Richard Lotspeich · Post by **Richard Lotspeich** » 19 Jul 2017 5:09 pm

^^^^^ I be working on at. Thank you Ricky.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 19 Jul 2017 5:44 pm

I like the fatter sound and the timbre better on strings 4 and 6 via the B&C pedals as opposed to strings 3 and 5. A&B pedals for the majority of my playing. Your mileage may vary.

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 19 Jul 2017 6:45 pm

Tim, I can probably find a particularly pertinent example later tonight, but it will take some time to scan through the whole set Charley Hill posted (over 90 minutes of awesomeness).

Ricky, super cool--thanks for sharing! I'm definitely going to mess around with that tonight!

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 19 Jul 2017 6:53 pm

Great reply Ricky- made my night- thanks

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jul 2017 7:34 pm

NO prob guys and way cool of your expression Jim P. thank you.
It really is just so incredible what Lloyd does around many corners. There was also a time when I had an old Marlen Speedy West pedal steel that you could either raise or lower a string but not both. So there was no 4th string E lower(just like Lloyd does not lower 4th String E). I played that guitar for almost a year and came up with so many other ways of getting voicings I wanted but didn't have what I was used to...so I found OTHER ways and came upon stuff I never thought I would play/figure out.
Sorry so winded guys...but I believe that is what this Thread is about. "How does Lloyd do this or that"...well lloyd would look right at you and say: "practice hearing what you want; on other strings; other frets, it's all there in many ways".
Ricky

Dan Robinson · Post by **Dan Robinson** » 19 Jul 2017 7:43 pm

Thanks, Ricky.

That is excellent info. I love using B&C that way.

Jan Jonsson · Post by **Jan Jonsson** » 20 Jul 2017 6:38 am

Hi,

I'm happy to see this post regarding the use of the B&C pedals. When I started tabbing some of Lloyd's performances I soon began to suspect, often due to the timbre of the notes, that some of the licks were not played in the position you would initially expect. For example, as mentioned by Bobby Boggs above, using the B&C pedals on strings 4 and 6 gives you a fatter sound than playing the sames notes on strings 3 and 5 with the A&B pedals.

And then when you add the second string D#->C# lever (with a half stop) the possibilities become really intriguing! I've found several places in Lloyd's performances where the B&C pedals and the D#->C# lever together on strings 2, 4 and 6 are most likely used instead of the more intuitive choice of A&B pedals and the low E->D# lever on strings 5, 6 and 8. Again, it is the timbre of the notes played that makes me suspect this. In Lloyd's recent recording, "Venus Moon", I am pretty convinced that the B&C pedals and D#->C# lever combo is used several times.

In the following recording ("Variations of a Theme, Part 1") Lloyd demonstrates how the B&C pedals and the D#->C# lever can be used together to produce some really beautiful voicings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78jWwotcDY

Best regards,
/Jan

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 20 Jul 2017 6:56 am

Indeed, Lloyd's use of the 2nd string lower is unparalleled and, I feel, why he is not copied.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 20 Jul 2017 10:23 am

Thanks for chiming in here Jan...
FOLKS; my friend Jan Jonsson; is the only one that I have EVER seen write tablature to the closest/perfected way that Lloyd Green actually played something. I know this because I have tried for many many years and every time I put something up; Lloyd will call me and say: "Well Ricky that is very close BUT, try this and play that"....and long story short It was so hard for me and everyone else to figure the exact Strings and fret he was actually playing..ha.
Until Jan.
Jan has already tabbed many things the way Lloyd played it and so there is your Massive learning possibilities of how Lloyd uses B and C pedals and many other combos...we have yet to figure out.
Get with Jan.
Ricky

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 20 Jul 2017 11:16 am

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Jul 2017 11:45 am

Nothing to do with Lloyd, but in 94 or 5 I took Jeff Newman's seminar at St. Louis, and he was very high on the 4 and 6 B&C pedal harmonized scale.

Jan Jonsson · Post by **Jan Jonsson** » 20 Jul 2017 1:11 pm

Hey Ricky! Thanks of lot for those very kind words. Despite your great guidance when I started playing the pedal steel I've never managed to get comfortable with playing the E9th tuning (instead I became more of a C6th jazz/fusion player). However, I do enjoy listening to, and analyzing, great E9th players. And, to that end, Lloyd Green is the one that gets my attention most of the time. But, of course, you Ricky are also an inspiration (my favorites are the Billy Dee and Linda Lay CDs).

Best regards,
/Jan

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 20 Jul 2017 1:44 pm

I'd like to echo what Ricky D said about Jan Jonsson's transcriptions. If you're into Lloyd Green's playing, they are unbelievably accurate and well done and you will learn a lot. Thanks for your hard work deciphering Lloyd's magic, Jan!

Abe Levy · Post by **Abe Levy** » 20 Jul 2017 3:41 pm

Is there a place to find all of Jan's tabs?

Jan Jonsson · Post by **Jan Jonsson** » 20 Jul 2017 3:45 pm

Hi Abe,

You can find my old post regarding the tabs here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=287631

Best regards,

-- Jan

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 20 Jul 2017 4:14 pm

Hi all,

I posted above, but upon consideration I realized that the fact that no one here knows me personally--I am essentially Nobody here on the Steel Guitar Forum--may have caused people to overlook my post. So I thought I'd try again.

Back in 2013 Rob Duuren posted what I think is an extremely accurate tablature transcription of Lloyd's intro to Peter Cooper's "Wine" right here on the Forum. It includes use of the B & C pedals and the 2nd string 1/2- and whole-step lowers using strings 6, 4, and 2 in the first half of the intro.

It's not a whole song, but it's available for free right here on the Forum, here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... light=wine

In the thread there is exceptionally good video of Lloyd playing the intro, where one can clearly see what fret he's at and when he uses bar slants. That, together with the audio, together with knowing what Lloyd's copedent has and doesn't have, led Rob to post what I firmly believe is an accurate transcription of how Lloyd played this intro.

I've done very few attempts to tab out stuff like this, and I am at best a hack on the steel guitar, but I devoted a lot of time myself to tabbing out this intro by studying the video, and if Rob's version of this isn't accurate I'll eat my hat. (Luckily, I seldom wear a hat.)

All I'm saying is: those interested in Lloyd's C pedal use, CHECK OUT THE LINK ABOVE. It's worthwhile!

James Collett · Post by **James Collett** » 20 Jul 2017 4:19 pm

Thanks everyone, this is all great stuff!

Jan Jonsson · Post by **Jan Jonsson** » 20 Jul 2017 4:50 pm

Thanks, Brint!

I completely agree that the transcription of Lloyd's intro to "Wine" is very useful, and it was a great help and inspiration for me when it was made available here at the forum. I had struggled for some time with that intro, and never quite got it right.

It is an excellent example of how the C pedal is used in a more advanced setting.

Best regards,

-- Jan

Jan Jonsson · Post by **Jan Jonsson** » 22 Jul 2017 7:02 pm

Hi,

I recently finalized a transcription of "Venus Moon", a beautiful composition by Lloyd that was performed at Station Inn and that contains several interesting uses of the C pedal.

My transcription is based on the studio recording that is available for purchase via iTunes, but it also corresponds very well with the live versions you can find on YouTube.

Here is my forum post with the transcription:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2650231

Best regards,

-- Jan

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jul 2017 9:43 am

When you lower the second string D# to D (a half step), the B+C pedals give you a major chord on strings 2 3 4. Rocking on/off the C pedal makes the classic country sound, like rocking on/off the A pedal in an A+B position but with a thinner timbre.

There are many uses for this "B+C+D" position, 2 frets above the "no pedals" position of any major chord.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 23 Jul 2017 5:23 pm

A few uses of the 3rd pedal, maybe some will be useful to you.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab11.html

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 14 Sep 2017 10:42 am

This thread opened up a whole new door of chords and notes.

Thanks to Bob for pointing out the D major chord on 2,3,4. With B/C and D. (String 2 to D natural)

Since string 1 is a unison with 4:
the same D major chord is on Str 1-2-3.

F#minor chord, (and D maj 7th) on 2-3-4 with the Str 2 lever lowered to C#.

With Str 5 lower(B to Bb), you get a D dom7 on 3-4-5. This is a split.

You also get a D6 pentatonic scale across the whole guitar, by holding B pedal and string 2 lower at D, and can rock the C pedal to raises degrees 6 to Maj7.

Thanks everyone.
John

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Lloyd Green C Pedal

Lloyd Green C Pedal

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